Light-mounted Pistol Question

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Lawndart

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Hi there,

Can anyone here direct me to what action sport discipline in Canada allows the use of light-mounted pistols? Is it a hard rule not to use? Or does it depend on the match?

Many thanks in advance.
 
You can use them in IPSC, but you'll be in Open division.

5.1.3.2. "Optical/electronic sights" are aiming devices (including
flashlights) fitted to a firearm which use electronic circuitry
and/or lenses.

APPENDIX D1 Open Division
Appendix D
1. Minimum power factor for Major 160
2. Minimum power factor for Minor 125
3. Minimum bullet weight 120 grain for Major
4. Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm
(0.748”)
5. Minimum bullet caliber for Major No
6. Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix F2) No
7. Maximum handgun size No
8. Maximum magazine length 170mm (see Appendix F1)
9. Maximum ammunition capacity No
10. Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed
loaders from torso 50mm
11. Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes
12. Restriction on position of holster and other
equipment No
13. Optical/electronic sights permitted Yes
14. Compensators, sound and/or flash suppressors
permitted Yes
15. Ports permitted Yes
 
You can have a light mounted in any shooting sport, whether or not you receive a score at the end is up to them. I stopped shooting for score or rank a while ago, now I shoot for the fun of it and to shoot the stages as tactically sound as possible i.e. not standing in door ways, use of cover on reloads,etc.
 
Reaper said:
You can have a light mounted in any shooting sport, whether or not you receive a score at the end is up to them. I stopped shooting for score or rank a while ago, now I shoot for the fun of it and to shoot the stages as tactically sound as possible i.e. not standing in door ways, use of cover on reloads,etc.
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Not in IDPA, in any division. Side matches if the club wants to run a light mounted match. Results do not count in the scoring of the IDPA portion of the match.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Not in IDPA, in any division. Side matches if the club wants to run a light mounted match. Results do not count in the scoring of the IDPA portion of the match.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

So if your carry or duty handgun has a weapons mounted light you cannot use it in a standard IDPA match?
 
What Department issues light mounted gun/holster configurations in Canada? If they do and the member wishes to compete in ful duty gear with a light mounted then I would consider that falling within the IDPA exemption. I am not aware of any Departments that do. They would not have the option of shooting some stages with the light mounted and other stages with it off in a Match.

The SWAT types would have to wear fully duty gear including Helmets etc if they wanted to compete with leg holsters etc. This would fall under our Military Exemption.

Take Care

Bob
 
Lawndart said:
Hi there,

Can anyone here direct me to what action sport discipline in Canada allows the use of light-mounted pistols? Is it a hard rule not to use? Or does it depend on the match?

Many thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I THINK you mean 'pistol-mounted light', not 'light-mounted pistol'.

I've never seen a flashlight with a firearm attachment. :D
 
Unfortunately IDPA has become example what Ken and Larry did not want it to be.

Most IDPA matches down here allow the use of lights. My 1911 has a X300 on it that I carry IWB.
 
KevinB said:
Unfortunately IDPA has become example what Ken and Larry did not want it to be.

Most IDPA matches down here allow the use of lights. My 1911 has a X300 on it that I carry IWB.
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Yeah...this rule makes no sense to me. Either you're simulating concealed carry with this game or you're not. If you carry concealed with a weapons mounted light there should be no reason you can't use it.
 
The reason you can't use it is against the rules. IDPA is a game while it's roots are based upon concealed carry. It still is a game....with rules. Given the rules of the sport are set by the BoD of IDPA I suspect they know exactly what the founders intended IDPA to be and how it is to be played.

Take Care

Bob
 
Well considering Big Red and I are friends with 2 of the 3 founding IDPA members, and know the third and ALL agreed IDPA now is NOT what they wanted to be I am pretty sure we are correct ;)
 
Hi Bob,

Speaking as someone with experience with policing and tac teams, many police services are now in the process of fielding pistols with lights. It's becoming an R&D item that is destined for issue to the road warriors.

Many tac teams are now issued pistols with lights mounted and it is part of their duty gear.

Out here, OPP is looking at P229R's and I know they have fielded some (any OPP guys in the know can chime in). It isn't going as fast as desired due to holster issues and some individuals who have a skewed view of training. I had one commissioned officer tell me that he didn't want to see light mounted guns because officers might draw their firearm when they needed a flashlight. I asked if he honestly believed that the IQ of his employees was that low. :mad:

I think IDPA has evolved into being more IPSC-like and it's a shame. I like both IDPA and IPSC but other than learning how to shoot against the clock/under pressure, both have strong limitations when it comes to operational tactics and shooting. I find the penalties in IDPA to be quite arbitrary and often meted out by RO's with little understanding of tactics, use of cover, etc.

You're right, they are games but I don't think IDPA has evolved in line with the original intent of it's founding fathers.
 
tritium said:
Hi Bob,

Speaking as someone with experience with policing and tac teams, many police services are now in the process of fielding pistols with lights. It's becoming an R&D item that is destined for issue to the road warriors.

Many tac teams are now issued pistols with lights mounted and it is part of their duty gear.

Out here, OPP is looking at P229R's and I know they have fielded some (any OPP guys in the know can chime in). It isn't going as fast as desired due to holster issues and some individuals who have a skewed view of training. I had one commissioned officer tell me that he didn't want to see light mounted guns because officers might draw their firearm when they needed a flashlight. I asked if he honestly believed that the IQ of his employees was that low. :mad:

I think IDPA has evolved into being more IPSC-like and it's a shame. I like both IDPA and IPSC but other than learning how to shoot against the clock/under pressure, both have strong limitations when it comes to operational tactics and shooting. I find the penalties in IDPA to be quite arbitrary and often meted out by RO's with little understanding of tactics, use of cover, etc.

You're right, they are games but I don't think IDPA has evolved in line with the original intent of it's founding fathers.
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The rules regarding cover have been there since the inception of the sport and it is a sport. We have rules against weighted guide rods, restrictions on full length dustcovers and from the beginning IDPA was meant to be a sport where equipment races were controlled if not eliminated.

Despite comments above, shooting with a light mounted on the gun is going to have an impact on muzzle flip and just add to the cost of the sport. IDPA is not a training ground for the tacticool crowd. Never was meant to be.

Despite Kevins comments most would find it impossible to conceal a gun with a light mounted let alone draw such an arrangement quickly.

As to the comments about what the founding fathers wanted I find it remarkable that Bill Wilson and his Board are the ones who set the rules for our sport and Bill Wilson is the primary founder of the sport. I think it should be obvious to most that the sport he founded and controls would be anything less than what he wanted/wants it to be. Sorry Kevin but your comments make no sense.

Comments regarding "gamers" are silly. The sport is a game played with a set of rules. By definition folks who play the game are "gamers". The same can be said about IPSC, the other Action Shooting sport. Both sports are what they are. You either shoot the game within the rules or find something else to play.

For those who want to play S.W.A.T. develop a sport and have at it. IDPA is not going to be a sport you will find much satisfaction.

Lastly, when you say IDPA is evolving into IPSC style shooting then you haven't shot much IDPA of late. Both sports are great fun but are totally different.

As to the issuing of light mounted guns for tactical teams you may wish to read the Exemption we have for the Military/Leo's. The exemption can be found on the IDPA Canada website. PM me if there is anything you don't understand regarding the exemption.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Despite comments above, shooting with a light mounted on the gun is going to have an impact on muzzle flip and just add to the cost of the sport. IDPA is not a training ground for the tacticool crowd. Never was meant to be.
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What does a light have to do with being "tacticool"? To engage a target you must identify it...low light situations will require illumination.

I was under the impression that IDPA *was* intended to provide semi realistic training scenarios. If it was supposed to be fantasy based then there would have been no need to invent the sport.

Canuck44 said:
Despite Kevins comments most would find it impossible to conceal a gun with a light mounted let alone draw such an arrangement quickly.
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Anyone who can conceal a full sized pistol can conceal one with a x200 on it. The drawstroke is identical, these aren't D-Cell Maglights.
 
KevinB said:
Well considering Big Red and I are friends with 2 of the 3 founding IDPA members, and know the third and ALL agreed IDPA now is NOT what they wanted to be I am pretty sure we are correct ;)
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Maybe with all our connections, maybe you could get them to change the rules to fit your needs. While you are at it I want to compete with my .38 super Para with the hybrid barrel that I carry all winter long;).
It holds 20 rounds and weighs a ton and muzzle flip, what muzzle flip.

If the others want a level playing field they can go buy one, whoops they will have to have one built.

Until the rules are changed, I will support and play by the rules. Even when I am in other states.

Sandy Wylie
 
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