Light primer strikes on reloads

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Ranger Dave

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I bought a Savage 111 7mm Rem Mag brand new. Factory ammo always goes bang. I started a trial run of handloads and half wouldn't light off. The primers are dented but not nearly as far as factory ammo.

The primers are Winchester LR Mag. My Ruger M77 MKII has no troubles lighting these primers off.

Or do I have a head space issue from my half a$$ reloading?

What are your thoughts?
 
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I washed the bolt out with solvent last night. I'm fairly confident that I had did this when I bought it and cleaned the rest of the rifle. I was going to try to see if that fixes it. The rifle has only seen 40 rounds up to yesterday. All factory loads went bang.

It was +5 yesterday.

I've never had this issue ever before. I've been reloading for 15 years. I said WTF a few times yesterday.
 
A quick GOOGLE search revealed that the 111 has a a number of threads on this issue ... here is one comment .. many seem to have sent the rifle for factory service ... narrow the search for your model, but one would presume the bolt andfiring pin is the same design .. this post was circa 2013


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Re: Savage 111XP light primer strikes... thoughts?

I realize this is a pretty old thread, but in just in case. I recently purchased a Savage 30-06 111 trophy hunter and I have been having the exact same issue. During my initial break I experienced at 80% failure rate. I believe the problem to be the firing pin spring. Savage completely re-designed their firing pin, and I believe the new version is flawed. The impact on the primers is extremely shallow. I was able to add a washer inside the bolt behind the firing pin spring to tighten the spring up a bit, but it still has a 20% failure rate. I was able further increase the reliability by changing the primers in the ammo I was using from Winchester to Federal. Federal primers are made of tin apparently don't require as hard of an impact to ignite. I contacted Savage and they wanted me to ship them the entire rifle back to them for testing. I requested they send me a new firing pin spring and firing pin, which they agreed to do as long as I signed a waver (gave up my warranty). I haven't receved the replacement parts yet so I don't know if they will fix the problem.
 
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Ranger Dave

If factory loaded ammunition fires and your reloads do not then there is your answer. Your primers need to be seated with a preload on the anvil of the primer as shown below.

Boxer-Primer_zps2da9c2c8.jpg


The primer will not fire if the anvil is not seated and touching the bottom of the primer pocket.

The primer will not fire if the firing pin does not give the primer a hard solid hit.

Did you disassemble the bolt and possibly not get back together properly.

When was the last time you cleaned the bolt, if the rifle is new you could have manufacturing debris inside the bolt.

Everything you read here in these postings is guesswork and you are the one holding the rifle in your hands and you have been given some possibilities.

http://www.savageshooters.com/forum.php is a good place to ask questions if the problem turns out to be bolt related.

The fact that factory ammunition fires and your reloads do not makes my primary "guess" the primers are not seated properly. You also may benefit by uniforming the primer pockets to a uniform depth and proper firm primer seating.

I have been reloading for over 46 years and seat all my primers by hand and feel the primer hit bottom. When a primer pocket is the correct depth the primer will be .006 to .008 below the surface of the cases.

RCBSPrimer-b_zps7e084f16.jpg


Do not be afraid to gently but firmly push on the primer to seat it in the primer pocket, too many people think when the primer is flush with the base of the case that it is properly seated.

Another wild ass guess is a sizing problem with your belted cases and the "case" causing the problem, so examine your cases and make sure the chamber is clean of all dirt and carbon in the neck/throat area.
 
Ranger Dave

I had the same problem with a box of Winchester Magnum primers used when loading for my Sako 85 in 375H&H. Factory ammo and Federal Premium primers worked just fine.

Could've just been a bad box of WW primers, but I always use the Federal Premium primers now as I don't trust the WW as much as I used to.

I'm sure most others have never had any issues with these primers....but I'm just relaying my experience with them.

Good advice above about pre-loading the primers into the pocket. To get the right "intuitive feel" so I don't crunch them too hard, I use a Sinclair stainless hand priming tool PN # 749-007-603 which has worked well for me. An added benefit is after all that hand priming, you get a good strong grip for shooting your pistols.:)
 
Ever notice that whenever there's a misfire thread there's either a savage rifle or CCI primer featured?

Strip the bolt and clean it. Bear in mind that its easy to put a savage bolt together wrong. Both firing pin protrusion and free-play are adjustable. Order the heaviest striker spring that Brownells will send you. Crap springs are quite common. Polish the inside of the bolt if you're bored.

While you're waiting for the spring make sure that your primers are fully seated, and if you have some Federals try them. If you are jamming your bullets into the lands back them off.

"Mostly working" and "barely working" are only a hair's width apart. It doesn't take much to tip the balance against you, or to your favor.
 
That's what I'm worried about. A rifle that's not 100% reliable worries me. I'm hoping its just an error seating of the primers or a bad batch.

This is my first Savage rifle. I bought it on a spur of the moment.
 
If the case is full length sized and if the bullet is seated long and touching the rifling, that will cushion the blow.

Try neck sizing a few cases. (Back off the FL dies a couple of revs so the die does not bottom out on the shell holder.) And seat the bullets 25 thou deeper. let me know how that works.
 
Ganderite said:
If the case is full length sized and if the bullet is seated long and touching the rifling, that will cushion the blow.

Try neck sizing a few cases. (Back off the FL dies a couple of revs so the die does not bottom out on the shell holder.) And seat the bullets 25 thou deeper. let me know how that works.
Click to expand...

How would seating the bullet into the lands cushion the blow? Full length sized with the shoulder pushed too far back will absolutely create negative headspace and consequently light primer strikes, but a bullet seated into the lands should negate that and create positive crush fit.

Simply neck sizing and not bumping the shoulder back more than absolutely necessary will have the same effect, but you lost me on how seating the bullet deeper at that point will have any effect.....

To the OP, when you drop a resized case into the rifle (just the case, not full of powder etc) is there slight resistance on the bolt when you close it? Or does it feel like you are closing on an empty chamber?

Control the factors you can, and reap the benefits with every shot....
 
I'm only guessing here, but if you were to FL size and seat in the lands with somewhat light neck tension. The bullet would act as a shock absorber when the firing pin strikes the primer because the case isn't being supported by the chamber of the rifle. This is only a guess.



KodiakHntr said:
How would seating the bullet into the lands cushion the blow? Full length sized with the shoulder pushed too far back will absolutely create negative headspace and consequently light primer strikes, but a bullet seated into the lands should negate that and create positive crush fit.

Simply neck sizing and not bumping the shoulder back more than absolutely necessary will have the same effect, but you lost me on how seating the bullet deeper at that point will have any effect.....

To the OP, when you drop a resized case into the rifle (just the case, not full of powder etc) is there slight resistance on the bolt when you close it? Or does it feel like you are closing on an empty chamber?

Control the factors you can, and reap the benefits with every shot....
Click to expand...
 
Nope. You can control headspace with a bullet seated into the lands during fire forming.

A bullet NOT seated into the lands, and a case that has been full length resized with the shoulder pushed a few thou too far back, can cause the problem the OP is having. When the stiker hits in that scenario, the entire cartridge moves forward causing inconsistent ignition. A bullet seated in the lands will hold the case against the bolt face, and allow primer detonation.

Given that his rifle WILL consistently fire factory rounds, I would look at the die first. THEN chase his tail.
 
Yeah - Ganderite is correct - when the bullet is touching the lands, it makes a softer smack because the bullet slides into the lands with the impact of the striker and this cushions the blow on the primer. Of course I am not sure that this is the problem here but a little more tinkering and testing will sort it out I suppose.

I've worked on four Savages in the last year that had weak striker springs - I can't figure that out. Okay - it was a little over a year - but what gives?
 
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