Good afternoon. I bought some cast 330 gr cast bullets I was wondering if I could make some closer range small game quieter rounds with them. I have bullseye and unique if that helps. The rifle is a marlin 1895 gs. Thank you for your time. Aaron
lightest 330 gr load for 4570
- Thread starter aaron v
- Start date
How slow do you want to go?
Expirement, make notes of all you do, then next time you won't have to ask anyone and you will have had a lot of fun.
Don't bother looking at loading books, the only danger involved in this is if the bullet sticks in the barrel. So make sure everytime, that the bullet gets out the barrel.
If you do stick a bullet in the barrel, the cast bullet can be very easily pounded back out, using a wooden dowel of about 3/8 inch across. (From Canadian Tire.)
Using Unique and a 330 grain cast bullet, I think 5 grains will drive it out the barrel, and will surprise you in how hard it hits a piece of wood.
I'm pure guessing here, but I think a load of Unique that would stick the bullet in the barrel, would be between 2 and 3 grains.
Say you find that 3 grains will drive it out the barrel, then it would be good to try your light loads in the 4.5 to 5 grain range and up, until you get the light little load you want.
Expirement, make notes of all you do, then next time you won't have to ask anyone and you will have had a lot of fun.
Don't bother looking at loading books, the only danger involved in this is if the bullet sticks in the barrel. So make sure everytime, that the bullet gets out the barrel.
If you do stick a bullet in the barrel, the cast bullet can be very easily pounded back out, using a wooden dowel of about 3/8 inch across. (From Canadian Tire.)
Using Unique and a 330 grain cast bullet, I think 5 grains will drive it out the barrel, and will surprise you in how hard it hits a piece of wood.
I'm pure guessing here, but I think a load of Unique that would stick the bullet in the barrel, would be between 2 and 3 grains.
Say you find that 3 grains will drive it out the barrel, then it would be good to try your light loads in the 4.5 to 5 grain range and up, until you get the light little load you want.
Boolitcaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Trail Boss does not work with every caliber, but 12 grains of TB with the Lee 340 grain cast bullet is a dream to shoot. Accurate in all the 45-70's I have had an opportunity to try so far, so it is worth a try in your Marlin.
Barely relevant but I loaded some 300 gr JHPs with 14.5 gr trailboss (using the 3.4cc scoop that came with my dies, weights were consistent enough for plinking) I actually laughed a little after I popped the first one off. I'd been shooting some spicy 350 gr loads so I wasn't used to the .22 mag-like recoil. That being said I wont be buying any more just based on economics. 9 oz. was $20, I think shotgun and pistol powders would cost less per rd for powder.
Massive VMD, would better fill the case.
5g of Unique ? That would be like a hotdog in a hallway in the 45-70, no ?
Some powders are dangerous when really lightly loaded, so I personally would be reluctant to use a load like that without more research into it.
Just working up safely kind of thing.
Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your load in anyway. In fact, I'd probably trust that load coming from you. Just me going into it without any recommendations, I'd probably default to Trail Boss cause I've worked with it and know it. Just what I would do kind of thing.
Yeah, good point, that is one bad thing about trailboss. The Price per volume ratio. I've always strayed away IMR and Hodgon pistol/shotgun powders cause they often short you 2oz compared to Alliant for the same price.
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
I am currently experimenting with Trail Boss (from Higginson's) and the 45-70 using both jacketed and cast bullets. So far not much consistency with velocities using jacketed, but expecting better chrony results with the cast. It's the fun factor that is worth the effort here. Using active targets is much more engaging too. Also, there is a formula for using Trail Boss with every caliber known to man. Next up to try is the .444 Marlin.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Clearly some powders are dangerous when lightly loaded; but the question should be which powders are and under what conditions are they dangerous, rather than simply implying that all lightly loaded powders are dangerous. Problems have universally been linked to small charges of slow burning powder in bottle necked cases, and even then an accident is difficult to replicate. The best guess I've heard is that the force of the primer drives the powder into the neck and shoulder of the cartridge, where it compresses forming a plug. Because the bullet doesn't move, the building pressure isn't relieved, until it exceeds the limitation of the rifle. All sorts of elements come into play though, such as the specific cartridge in question, it's volume, and the geometry of it's shoulder, the length of the bullet's shank, where the base of the bullet is relevant to the bottom of the case neck, and the specific powder being used. Bullseye, Unique, and TB are not slow burning powders and the .45/70 is not a bottle necked case, so I for one would not anticipate a problem.
Thank you for the great information
I will be trying for about 800 fps I think. I have a chrony so if time allows it I'll get on some test loads today. I'm really starting to consider casting my own bullets might be a good idea. I will post my results.
I will be trying for about 800 fps I think. I have a chrony so if time allows it I'll get on some test loads today. I'm really starting to consider casting my own bullets might be a good idea. I will post my results.
I recently did accuracy testing with my 45-70 and light loads and found Bluedot to be more accurate than Unique or TB for whatever reason. I tried 10 and 15gr of Unique and 8 and 10gr of Trail Boss but found 15gr of Bluedot to be the most accurate with 340gr cast bullets. The holes where touching at 25yds, under 3" at 50yds.
As to light loads being dangerous; that is generally accepted (still debated though) to only apply to slower burning powders like magnum rifle powders. In 2013 alone I have fired a few hundred really light loads of Unique, TB, and Bluedot in many different cartridges with loads ranging from 5-20gr in some pretty big cases (45-70, 300WM, 8x57) with no pressure issues, no hang fires, no FTF's, and all without buffer in the cases. I am using regular CCI large rifle primers for the most part; not even magnums. Double charges can only be made if you are careless and don't double and triple check the cases before seating the bullet. After powder charging a tray I take a flashlight and make sure all of the cases are to roughly the same level of powder. Then I check each one again after picking it up before seating the bullet.
As to light loads being dangerous; that is generally accepted (still debated though) to only apply to slower burning powders like magnum rifle powders. In 2013 alone I have fired a few hundred really light loads of Unique, TB, and Bluedot in many different cartridges with loads ranging from 5-20gr in some pretty big cases (45-70, 300WM, 8x57) with no pressure issues, no hang fires, no FTF's, and all without buffer in the cases. I am using regular CCI large rifle primers for the most part; not even magnums. Double charges can only be made if you are careless and don't double and triple check the cases before seating the bullet. After powder charging a tray I take a flashlight and make sure all of the cases are to roughly the same level of powder. Then I check each one again after picking it up before seating the bullet.
Thank you for your comments about me.
The reason I phrased my post to the OP like I did, was to try and get the attitude across that, "Hey, hand loading can actually be fun". Just experiment and tell us about it.
At one time hand loading was a fun hobby. It was common for a fellow hand loader to call up in the evening, telling what he had recently tried and suggesting we try it. And we would try it, to see what our results would be.
Common sense told us there was not enough energy in very small amounts, like 5 or 10 grains, of any type of smokeless powder, to possibly damage a bolt action centre fire rifle.
Thus, we were completely free to load and shoot away, trying anything within those parameters, that we could think of.
Now, the vast majority of newer reloaders, at least here on CGN, are sheep who treat the subject of hand loading like it was a crocodile in their swimming pool, just waiting to eat you up and wreck your house! Don't come near it, or touch it, unless you have read in one or more of your many books on the subject exactly how you should approach it.
Getting back to loading small amounts of powder in a centre fire rifle, using cast bullets.
I have not gone down to extremely light loads with a 45-70. With my lightest loads I could fire the cartridge, then listen for the bullet to hit the 100 yard target.
However, with each of a 270, 30-06 and 44 magnum rifle, I have used loads that young sons and I could shoot in the basement to our hearts content.
H110 powder is said to be the same as Winchester 296 and all sorts of horror stories have been written about what might happen if that powder is loaded lighter than standard loads given in loading books. It is also said to be very inaccurate at lower powder loadings.
The following is taken from my notes of September 2, 1967.
I loaded 8 grains of H110 in a 270 Winchester, behind a 100 grain jacketed bullet. I put a 600 page Eaton's catalogue up to catch the bullet, with a hard fir plank 1 5/8 inches thick behind the catalogue.
The bullet completely penetrated the catalogue, plus the plank and kept on going!
I then tried 6 grains of H110. The 100 grain bullet penetrated the catalogue, and made a small dent in the plank.
I then went back to 8 grains and shot a five shot group at 50 yards. My notes state the group was one inch across, 3.5 inches lower than my hunting loads.
Somewhere in my notes are records of extremely light loads of H110 in a 30-06 with cast bullets, that my young sons and I were shooting in the basement. It is in the notes that I made a three shot, all connected clover leaf, at our 30 foot basement make shift range.
On August 19, 1985 I was experimenting in the basement with a Marlin rifle in 44 magnum calibre, using 240 grain cast bullets.
To stop the bullets I set up a dried block of Douglas fir wood, set cross grain. Technically, this is a soft wood, but in reality it is a very hard wood.
With 4 grains of Unique the bullet disappeared into the wood. Measurement showed it was 3/4 inch to the base of the bullet.
3.5 grains of Unique put the base of the bullet into the wood 3/8 of an inch.
3 grains of Unique buried the 240 grain bullet into the hard, fir block of wood!
I have no idea why I am sitting here on a beautiful Canada day morning, trying to tell a bunch of sheep how to have fun!
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Just a little update, I loaded up a pair each of 4.5, 5,6,7,8 gr of unique. My chrony kept putting out error codes even in the shade and when it finally gave me a reading it was 2342 fps. Yeah right. I'll pick up a new battery tomorrow. Just to know, 4.5 gr put the bullet about 2" into a softer poplar log. 8gr came out the backside(10") with some speed left over. Report was substantially quieter even between those 2 loads. Definitely a fun afternoon
Just a little update, I loaded up a pair each of 4.5, 5,6,7,8 gr of unique. My chrony kept putting out error codes even in the shade and when it finally gave me a reading it was 2342 fps. Yeah right. I'll pick up a new battery tomorrow. Just to know, 4.5 gr put the bullet about 2" into a softer poplar log. 8gr came out the backside(10") with some speed left over. Report was substantially quieter even between those 2 loads. Definitely a fun afternoon
Very glad to see you are experimenting and having fun.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Just a little update, I loaded up a pair each of 4.5, 5,6,7,8 gr of unique. My chrony kept putting out error codes even in the shade and when it finally gave me a reading it was 2342 fps. Yeah right. I'll pick up a new battery tomorrow. Just to know, 4.5 gr put the bullet about 2" into a softer poplar log. 8gr came out the backside(10") with some speed left over. Report was substantially quieter even between those 2 loads. Definitely a fun afternoon
The problem you're having is that your chrony is reading the muzzle blast which moves ahead of the subsonic bullet. Set up a cardboard or plastic baffle in front of the chrony to stop the supersonic particles of powder, and you'll get a true velocity reading.
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Thank you. I'm only 5 years into this sport with zero experience with firearms before. In the past 6 months I've been playing with 44 mag reduced loads for rabbit hunting with great success. I really appreciate any experienced insight. My daughter will be thrilled that now she can shoot the new marlin too
thanks again. Aaron
