I would be interested in seeing the specs on the 3.2 lb AR, how much it cost and how it felt to shoot. I am trying to make a lighter AR myself but am dealing with all kinds of sounds and vibrations that make the shooting experience not as enjoyable as my heavier AR.
Lightest weight AR build ?
- Thread starter madashell
- Start date
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
I'm currently in the process of putting together a ultra-light weight AR-15 myself. Over the last few years I've done tons of research, there are many good threads on forums, blogs and some decent YouTube videos. I'm still waiting on a few parts (barrel & gas block) and haven't decided on a muzzle device yet. According to my build spreadsheet I should be around 1905g with a shield red dot (no mag, no BUIS), that is about 4.2lbs. I was aiming for 4lbs or less, but this will probably have to do. Very easy to do one in the 5.0lb - 5.5lb range, after that it gets VERY expensive.
I've checked with a importer and the 2A lower is a 'low shelf' design and they said it would probably get a prohibited FRT. They would not try and import it. My LGS imported the new V7 Weapon systems Enlightened 2055 lower, but it is also a low shelf design and was returned to the distributor.
The lightest metal lower I have found in Canada is the Mag Tactical lower, one of the site sponsors had some a few months ago. But read up on them, they have had problems in the past. I believe they are out of business now. I could never find one of their slick side uppers, they were supposed to be the lightest metal ones available.
Realistically the lightest lower / upper you are going to get in Canada are the Battle Arms Development ones. They are the ones I'm using. They are only slightly heavier than the 2A or V7.
I've checked with a importer and the 2A lower is a 'low shelf' design and they said it would probably get a prohibited FRT. They would not try and import it. My LGS imported the new V7 Weapon systems Enlightened 2055 lower, but it is also a low shelf design and was returned to the distributor.
The lightest metal lower I have found in Canada is the Mag Tactical lower, one of the site sponsors had some a few months ago. But read up on them, they have had problems in the past. I believe they are out of business now. I could never find one of their slick side uppers, they were supposed to be the lightest metal ones available.
Realistically the lightest lower / upper you are going to get in Canada are the Battle Arms Development ones. They are the ones I'm using. They are only slightly heavier than the 2A or V7.
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thegrandpoohbah
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Terrace, BC
By low shelf design do you mean it can be converted to full auto hence the prohib classification?
I would love to see some more details on your build.
No, a low shelf is no easier to make full auto than a high shelf. Low shelf lowers are intended for the US where a Registered Drop In Auto Sear may be used with the proper paperwork. A RDIAS is a prohibited device in Canada.
This is the first that I've heard that an AR-15 has to be high shelf IOT get an FRT. It makes zero sense if true. FA bolt carriers are allowed, hell, there is nothing illegal about owning an auto sear or FA selector. Half of the ARs in this country are low shelf so why the exception here? I can pretty much guarenty that every AR15 upper in this country, with the exception of the SP1, is machined for an auto sear. So why the fuss?
This is the first that I've heard that an AR-15 has to be high shelf IOT get an FRT. It makes zero sense if true. FA bolt carriers are allowed, hell, there is nothing illegal about owning an auto sear or FA selector. Half of the ARs in this country are low shelf so why the exception here? I can pretty much guarenty that every AR15 upper in this country, with the exception of the SP1, is machined for an auto sear. So why the fuss?
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
I wrote this out last night, but it appears it did not post for some reason.
Yes I believe they are worried about Drop in Auto Sears with low shelf receivers. Hence not getting a restricted classification.
I've been collecting parts for my lightweight AR15 for almost 2 years, I've almost got everything. Final parts are going to be the following:
Lower:
Battle Arms lightweight lower
Battle Arms Sabre tube / stock combo
JP Enterprises Gen 2 Silent Capture Spring system
Geissele G2s Trigger
V7 Weapon Systems Titanium trigger pins
V7 Ambi hybrid Titanium Safety
V7 aluminum magazine catch
V7 lightweight Bolt Catch
V7 aluminum Takedown / Pivot pins
Magpul MOE K-grip
V7 titanium grip screw
Upper:
Battle Arms lightweight upper
V7 lightweight port door & port door rod
BCM KMR 10" handguard (the magnesium alloy one, not the alpha one)
V7 BCM KMR titanium barrel nut
V7 BCM KMR titanium clamp blocks
V7 Titanium BCG
Shield mini red dot sight & riser (on order)
Faxon 11.5" Big Gunner barrel (on order)
SLR Rifleworks 0.625" Titanium adjustable gas block (on order)
muzzle device undecided.
All in it should weight around 4.2lbs with the red dot, but no magazine. You can't do it much lighter with readily available parts in Canada. You could of course go with a shorter barrel & handguard and drop the ambi safety. And there are lighter BCG's, grips & handguards available, but would have to get them out of the US.
If I was to do it over again, I'd probably just do a budget build.
Aero lower, Aero slickside upper, Faxon 14.5" LW barrel (or a DD 10.3" if you have the $$$), KMR alpha 7" handguard, std weight BCG, Magpul carbine MOE or SL-K stock, Magpul MOE K-grip, strike industries port door, and a DD LPK. Should be right around 5lb. Then as money allows you can upgrade one part at a time to lighter stuff.
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- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
You contradict yourself in the first two sentences, by first saying a low shelf is just as hard to put make full auto as a high shelf. And then go on to explain how a low shelf just needs a DIAS to be full auto. I believe the RCMP SFSS are worried about the DIAS, just like a slide fire stock, fits the definition of 'easily convertible to full auto'. Maybe they didn't do it in the past, but they changed how they now classify AR15 lowers. It doesn't have to make sense it is Canadian firearms laws.
thegrandpoohbah
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Terrace, BC
mileageman, mind sharing the approximate cost of that build? Thanks.
I've built a lightweight rifle recently that came to the 5lb mark. The parts list for the build are:
Battle arms upper and lower lightweight recievers
Battle arms 14.5 lightrigid barrel
SLRrifleworks 13.7 ultralight mlok rail system
Jp enterprises ultra low mass bcg
SLRrifleworks adjustable gas block
Lantac dragon muzzle brake
Cmc flat two stage trigger
Rainier arms avalanche charging handle
MFT minimalist stock
Rainier arms buffer tube
Battle arms ambi selector
Phase 5 bolt catch
Strike industries dust cover
Battle arms lightweight take-down pins
Battle arms enlarged mag release
Magpul SL pistol grip
Troy flip up irons
Could have gone slightly lighter but wanted it to be
Cosmetically appealing as well as light. Also couldn't justify shelling out the extra cash for any V7 parts like trigger pins or buffer tube as the gains aren't worth the added cost to the build.
Planning on it being around 6-6.5 lbs once I put a 1-6 optic and a mount on it.
Cost of build as it sits right now is between 3500-4000.
Battle arms upper and lower lightweight recievers
Battle arms 14.5 lightrigid barrel
SLRrifleworks 13.7 ultralight mlok rail system
Jp enterprises ultra low mass bcg
SLRrifleworks adjustable gas block
Lantac dragon muzzle brake
Cmc flat two stage trigger
Rainier arms avalanche charging handle
MFT minimalist stock
Rainier arms buffer tube
Battle arms ambi selector
Phase 5 bolt catch
Strike industries dust cover
Battle arms lightweight take-down pins
Battle arms enlarged mag release
Magpul SL pistol grip
Troy flip up irons
Could have gone slightly lighter but wanted it to be
Cosmetically appealing as well as light. Also couldn't justify shelling out the extra cash for any V7 parts like trigger pins or buffer tube as the gains aren't worth the added cost to the build.
Planning on it being around 6-6.5 lbs once I put a 1-6 optic and a mount on it.
Cost of build as it sits right now is between 3500-4000.
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
You are making me sum up a column on my spreadsheet I probably shouldn't. But it is 2017 & I've had a few beers.
Prices are current retail prices, not including shipping. I bought a lot of this stuff on sale and back in 2014 (had a good job) and the dollar was at par. I imported a bunch of V7 stuff before anyone in Canada was carrying it.
I forgot in the original post the V7 ti firing pin & the AXTS Raptor charging handle (yes they were included in the weight). I don't care how much the AXTS Raptor charging handle weighs or if there is a lighter one available, it is the best period, it goes on all my ARs.
Lower:
Battle Arms lightweight lower (RDSC) $430
Battle Arms Sabre tube / stock combo (CTCS) $285
JP Enterprises Gen 2 Silent Capture Spring system (RDSC) $240
Geissele G2s Trigger (Sask Gunworks) $250
V7 Weapon Systems Titanium trigger pins (RDSC) $40
V7 Ambi hybrid Titanium Safety (RDSC) $110
V7 aluminum magazine catch (RDSC) $50
V7 lightweight Bolt Catch (imported) $80
V7 aluminum Takedown / Pivot pins (RDSC) $44
Magpul MOE K-grip (CTCS) $32
V7 titanium grip screw (CTCS) $10
Upper:
Battle Arms lightweight upper (RDSC) $389
V7 lightweight port door & port door rod (CTCS) $62 & $16
AXTS Raptor charging handle (Canada Ammo) $125
BCM KMR 10" handguard (the magnesium alloy one, not the alpha one) (CGN EE) $350
V7 BCM KMR titanium barrel nut (RDSC) $100
V7 BCM KMR titanium clamp blocks (CTCS) $60
V7 Titanium BCG (CTCS) $575
V7 Titanium Firing PIn (RDSC) $40
Shield mini red dot sight & riser (on order) (Tactical Imports) $468
Faxon 11.5" Big Gunner barrel (on order) (CTCS) $TBD
SLR Rifleworks 0.625" Titanium adjustable gas block (on order) (###### Armoury) $188
muzzle device undecided.
misc small parts (springs, detents & pins) are from brownells and are included in the final weight.
So that total for the above list comes to $3924 cdn. Not including the barrel, muzzle device or misc small parts from Brownells or shipping on the multiple orders. It costs a lot to be ultra lightweight. Not my most expensive AR, but very very close.
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
That is a very nice build!!
I agree you can't give up some stuff. For me I couldn't give up a Raptor Charging handle, a ambi safety or decently long barrel & handguard. I'm warming up to the Sabretube style stock, but still not %100 sold on it. I'll probably regret not putting a Phase 5 bolt catch on this rifle, but figured since this is really just a range toy I could make do with out. I do not intend to run this rile at courses. The other AR's I run hard all have a phase 5 bolt catches on them.
FYI the strike industries port door weights 0.1g more than a V7 port door. I recommend it to anyone putting together a AR. In fact I recommend all the strike industries stuff that CTCS carries, they appear to be very well made and very well priced.
How do you like the V7 BCG? I have one but having issue of it cycling properly on my Noveske, I suspect it has a slight bent as the thing feels like its rubbing(no issues with stock and teh fail zero) I swapped mine temporarily with a Fail zero BCG while I wait for my JP lightweight BCG to arrive.
thegrandpoohbah
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Terrace, BC
Thanks for the detailed info mileageman and RogyBear. While I am in a position where I can afford to spend $4000 on a new rifle I just can't justify it at this time as I don't shoot often enough. I'm kind of leaning towards the DDM4 V7 LW which is just over 6 pounds and then upgrading a few parts over time to bring the weight down a bit more.
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
I haven't tried my V7 BCG in a rifle yet. It is sitting in a Rubbermaid container waiting on the last of the parts for my me build. I'll take a better look at mine when I get home, maybe try it in one of my other AR's.
Did I? I don't think so. A DIAS is a prohib device in Canada. Can a DIAS just be put in a low shelf lower? Yes, but you still need a selector and FA bolt carrier. And where are you getting a DIAS anyway? Registered ones in the US go for over 20k now. So you have to make one from scratch.
An auto sear, FA selector and FA carrier are not prohibited. You can own as many as you like up until the point where you install all of them together. If you can machine a low shelf to take The auto sear then you can machine a high shelf. It would just take a few more passes.
Anyway, that's enough of that kind of talk, either way you're breaking the law. My point was that roughly half of th AR manufacturers only make low shelf lowers and they're not prohibited from entering this country AFAIK. I doubt they're all making high shelf to appease the RCMP.
The barrel is far and away the easiest place to save weight. That and simply avoiding a bunch of unnecessary accessories.
A standard fixed stock will also be lighter than most of the overbuilt collapsibles that are on the market today.
If you can lose the forward assist you will save another 100g or so.
I'm so glad you posted this. Old school is cool!
I had a Bushmaster Carbon 15(pre-Remington) it had a captured buffer and spring(like a AR pistol). Carbon reinforced polymer lower, slick side upper and stock, 14.5" stainless pencil barrel. Came in at 4.5 lbs with a Leupold 2-7 scope(forget which model).
It was quite unpleasant to shoot at that weight, a combination of unergonomic stock, and light weight.
It was quite unpleasant to shoot at that weight, a combination of unergonomic stock, and light weight.
