lightweight gun - kimber montana vs custom build

[StevieK]

I have been looking around for an ultra lightweight bolt action gun. It seems as though the kimber montana is about the lightest that I can get in a factory setup. It also still has a 22" barrel and full size stock which is important to me, I don't like the compact model bolt actions. At 5 lbs 2 oz it's almost about 1.5lbs lighter than most other factory guns.
I was just wondering if there are any other options that I haven't looked at for really lightweight bolt actions. Are there also any specific actions that can be used in a custom build that could give a 5lb rifle with the right stock?
Also, in terms of glass I was thinking of putting a fixed 4x or 6x scope on whatever I get. I figured a fixed power scope would be a shade lighter and better quality. Right now I almost exclusively use bushnell 3200/4200 3-9x40 scopes, so I've had no experience with good fixed power scopes. It seems as though a 2-7x33 from leupold weighs the same amount as the 6x36. If the weight is the same I would rather have the variable power for convenience as the rifle will be used in different conditions. What would you guys choose? is the optic quality of a fixed power scope miles above a variable? I also can't find many companies other than leupold that make fixed power scopes. any others that won't break the bank?

 

[mikeyb]

Have you held one? I know someone who had their heart set on one but ended up not liking it once it was in their hands, way slimmer and trimmer than he expected. That said, nothing wrong with a fixed 4x or 6x. I prefer 6x but then again I have terrible eyesight.

 

[shooter177]

There was a kimber Montana at huntfest I got to fondle it was a seriously sharp looking and nice handling rifle, defiantly on the list for rifles to buy, the only other light weight rifle I have seen is a ruger compact laminit , but it isnt that much lighter than my savage weather warrior

 

[257Roberts]

I looked at the Kimber at Huntfest as well and really liked the way it felt. I have heard good and bad about them. Me being a lever action fan if were to choose one I am not sure what caliber it would be in.

 

[1899]

For scopes the Leupold 3-9x33 compact is about as light as it gets at 8.8 oz. The 2-7 is 8.3oz iirc. The fixed 4x and 6x scopes are significantly heavier.

Other lightweight options are

Weatherby Ultra Lightweight 5lbs 12oz for non-magnum with a 24" barrel

Remington Alaskan Ti 6lbs in short action with a 24" barrel

Remington Model 7 in a Wildcat stock with 0.8" decelerator is about 5 lbs 4 oz

Browning A-Bolt Mountain Ti 5 lbs 6-8oz depending on chambering


Good luck on your search.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

I've owned, hunted with and spent plenty of range time with 84m's in classic and Montana models, as well as lightweight customs.
The 84M Montana really is a true lightweight, the action was designed around the .308 cartridge by Nehemia Sirkis and Melvin Forbes of NULA fame had a hand in development of the stock.
Unlike other manufacturers who hollow out bolt handles, slab actions and lop inches off the barrels of one of their existing actions and call it a lightweight the Kimber is the real deal. You get a true short action with a 22" barrel and a decent full-size stock with a decent L.O.P.
Now before I get accused of drinking the kool-aid, I will be the first to admit Kimbers can make you pull out your hair. I have experienced feed problems and mis-firing. If you are not willing to spend time tweaking and aren't somewhat mechanically inclined I would think about avoiding a used Kimber in 7-08.
They require technique and discipline to group well from the bench. This is not personal opinion, I have seen people struggle to achieve good groups with light rifles. Montanas are very capable of .75 to 1.5" groups with handloads and proper technique. Of all the glaring faults you read about Kimbers on the intranets, I really do feel the talk of inaccuracy is for the most part unwarranted and directly related to the shooter.

Going the custom route will make your wallet much lighter, make canada post lots of money, then take a year or more off your life sourcing parts and dealing with 'smiths BUT you should have no reliability or accuracy issues.
Yet another option is a built in-house rifle such as a NULA, Rifles inc. or an RMR custom package from Corlanes here in BC.
Sky's the limit...as well as your bank account. Good luck in your choice and lot's of info on custom lightweight builds can be had over at the 24hrcampfire

Mikeyb has some good advice. Go handle one! Too bad you weren't here in BC I'd let you shoot mine.

 

[chuck nelson]

For scopes the Leupold 3-9x33 compact is about as light as it gets at 8.8 oz. The 2-7 is 8.3oz iirc. The fixed 4x and 6x scopes are significantly heavier.

Significantly heavier? Are you serious?

The compact 3-9X33 is a piece of absolute crap and the extra 0.5oz of the 4X and 1.5oz's of 6X are worth it in EVERY conceivable way.

 

[blargon]

I have been looking around for an ultra lightweight bolt action gun. It seems as though the kimber montana is about the lightest that I can get in a factory setup. It also still has a 22" barrel and full size stock which is important to me, I don't like the compact model bolt actions.

What weight do you want to be at, including scope and rings? My preference is 7 - 7.25lbs scoped.

I don't think you'll find a lighter factory rifle, at least not in Canada.

If you want a real light factory package, the Montana in .308 with Talley LW rings and a 4x Leupold will put you at about 5lbs 14oz, and will run ~$2000.

You could go with a Rem 7 and a Mcmillan EDGE stock, with same rings and same scope and be at the same weight, for the same $$. The difference would be a better stock and a floorplate.

What would you guys choose? is the optic quality of a fixed power scope miles above a variable? I also can't find many companies other than leupold that make fixed power scopes. any others that won't break the bank?

The Leupold 4x are great scopes, I have 3 of them here. Depending on where and what you are hunting, they would be a good choice. Nothing wrong with a variable either, but the 4x is lighter.

For scopes the Leupold 3-9x33 compact is about as light as it gets at 8.8 oz. The 2-7 is 8.3oz iirc. The fixed 4x and 6x scopes are significantly heavier.

The Leupold FX-II 4x33mm is only 9.3 oz.

 

[chuck nelson]

My brother with an Antelope taken with a Montana 7mm-08 and 6X36 Leupold in Talley LW's at over 400 yds. An ideal combination IMO.

 

[1899]

Significantly heavier? Are you serious?

The compact 3-9X33 is a piece of absolute crap and the extra 0.5oz of the 4X and 1.5oz's of 6X are worth it in EVERY conceivable way.

The FX-3 6x42 weighs 13.6 oz, but yes, the FX-IIs are lighter than that. I have used a 3-9x33 for about 15 years or so without any problems. I also have an FX-II, albeit a 2.5x that I like very much. Why do you think the 4x and 6x are worth it in every conceivable way?

FWIW I used an old fixed 6x Swarovski for a long time on a Model 7 SS, so I am not at all against fixed power scopes - I like them.

 

[lledwod]

Leupold compact 2.5, 6.4 oz. A lot of people may shy away from the low power and small objective but it works for me out as far as I care to shoot on sheep, 3-400 yds. (closer is of course better) My choice of lightweight bolt and faithfull companion for 12 or so years now is a browning micro medalion 7mm-08. 7lbs 2oz, scope sling and loaded. Lately though I have taken to carrying iron sighted levers, a pleasure to carry and I don't mind the little extra challange of stalking within 200 yds. In fact I am heading out on my first sheep hunt of the season today, and am carrying my 1894 .44 mag this time.
I know this is a little off topic, just some observations. The little Kimbers have always looked good to me! ( the 43" sheep in my avatar was shot with a model 94 30-30)

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

You could go with a Rem 7 and a Mcmillan EDGE stock, with same rings and same scope and be at the same weight, for the same $$. The difference would be a better stock and a floorplate.

I'm sorry blargon...I just can't wrap my head around that quoted weight without a picture. I'm certainly not calling you a liar, and would humbly eat my words if mistaken, but I have an extremely hard time believing that a model 7 action that wasn't worked extensively ( slabbed, mag box milled etc. etc.) with an equal length and contour barrel as the 84M and a hinged floorplate in a composite of your choice could even approach 5 and a half lbs. It would only be possible with extensive work to remove metal. My Montana in 7-08 goes 5lbs 13ozs all-up with low Talleys and a FX-II 4x.
My buddies Montana in .338 goes a few ounces lighter than that. Grab a titanium bolt handle from the member over at the 'fire and lose another ounce on top.
The statement that the Edge is a better stock is purely personal preference.
I really dig the recoil-absorbing design of the Montana's stock, the grip area feels great in my right hand and IMHO the only thing the Edge has over the 84M stock is the checkering. I have hunted with both up and down the scree and never had a durability issue with either stock.

I know it's nit-picking but what better thread to do it in?

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

In fact I am heading out on my first sheep hunt of the season today, and am carrying my 1894 .44 mag this time.

I like the sound of that!

 

[1899]

I'm sorry blargon...I just can't wrap my head around that quoted weight without a picture. I'm certainly not calling you a liar, and would humbly eat my words if mistaken, but I have an extremely hard time believing that even a model 7 action that was worked extensively ( slabbed, mag box milled etc. etc.) with an equal length and contour barrel as the 84M and a hinged floorplate in a composite of your choice could even approach 5 and a half lbs..I know it's nit-picking but what better thread to do it in?

Barreled action on a Model 7 is between 3 lbs 14 oz and 4 lbs - this is from info that I had written down ages ago, and I can't remember from where, so please correct me if I am wrong.

A Wildcat stock finishes ~20 oz or so, which is 1 lb 4 oz. Add the two together and you are anywhere between 5 lbs 2 oz and 5 lbs 4 oz. The caveat here is that I did a bunch of research before I sold my Model 7 SS, and before I did the work. The info is based on other folks' experience.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Barreled action on a Model 7 is between 3 lbs 14 oz and 4 lbs - this is from info that I had written down ages ago, and I can't remember from where, so please correct me if I am wrong.

A Wildcat stock finishes ~20 oz or so, which is 1 lb 4 oz. Add the two together and you are anywhere between 5 lbs 2 oz and 5 lbs 4 oz. The caveat here is that I did a bunch of research before I sold my Model 7 SS, and before I did the work. The info is based on other folks' experience.

...and then we add our Talleys and a 10oz Leupold and we're pushing 6lbs.
What if we didn't use sling studs?

I have seen a few custom Model 7's on the intrawebs with crazy metalwork and custom contoured 20" barrels in the low 5's.
Those rifles were stocked in Lone Wolfs' summit XL IIRC.

I'm not being an Ass here. I am genuinely passionate and obsessive about lightweight rifles in any action-type, make or caliber.
If you guys are building 5lb, stainless Model 7's for 1500 bucks I want in on it!

 

[1899]

...and then we add our Talleys and a 10oz Leupold and we're pushing 6lbs.
What if we didn't use sling studs?

I have seen a few custom Model 7's on the intrawebs with crazy metalwork and custom contoured 20" barrels in the low 5's.
Those rifles were stocked in Lone Wolfs' summit XL IIRC.

I'm not being an Ass here. I am genuinely passionate and obsessive about lightweight rifles in any action-type, make or caliber.
If you guys are building 5lb Model 7's for 1500 bucks I want in on it!

Isn't 5 lbs 2-4 oz the same as a Montana?

 

[StevieK]

I had heard of problems with accuracy from kimber guns, but I hadn't heard anything of feeding issues and such. I figured since it is a mauser type CRF action that this would not be an issue. In terms of accuracy I am satisfied with a hunting rifle that will group between 1" and 2".
As far as weight goes I have many bolt guns that weight in around 7-8lbs scoped, I don't necessarily find them too heavy. but since I want a lightweight gun for long treks and such I figure I might as well go for the extreme. Since the 7mm-08 is low recoiling I can do with a light gun.
Chuck, that's a nice pic of your brother with his antelope. I do find it strange that you mention his setup is a perfect combination, as the gun is not in a mcmillan edge stock, it is not a pre-64 winchester action, and the bolt is not on the left side...hmmm are you sure you aren't adopted???

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Isn't 5 lbs 2-4 oz the same as a Montana?

It certainly would be in theory.
IF you could find the donor Model 7 barreled action with a 22" pipe.
It doesn't exist from the factory unfortunately, only 20" barrels on sevens in standard calibers.
I'm thinking the Montana could drop onto the realm of 4lbs **oz's with an 18" barrel.

 

[1899]

It certainly would be in theory.
IF you could find the donor Model 7 barreled action with a 22" pipe.
It doesn't exist from the factory unfortunately, only 20" barrels on sevens in standard calibers.
I'm thinking the Montana could drop onto the realm of 4lbs **oz's with an 18" barrel.

Oh I agree completely about the 20" barrel vs. 22" barrel. It is just an option for a lightweight set-up, that's all.

Oh yes, suprisingly nobody has mentioned the new Savage Lightweight Hunter at 5 1/2 lbs. I would have thought Chuck Nelson would have been all over it like stink on a monkey.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Significantly heavier? Are you serious?

The compact 3-9X33 is a piece of absolute crap and the extra 0.5oz of the 4X and 1.5oz's of 6X are worth it in EVERY conceivable way.

I have to agree with Chuck. I had two of those VX-II ultralights, but don't anymore. I tried really hard to love them...but optically I found them dim and lacking in FOV.