Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Why is it that some use an uber magnum for game but suggest a 7-08 for their wives/kids/girlfriends for the same game??
Limits of the 7mm-08?
- Thread starter Suther
- Start date
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
The 7mm-08, or mauser version is going to be fine for all your common North American big game, but excluding Bison and really big bears.
As for the side conversation (one that keeps happening over and over again), comparing the various 7mm's to their 30 caliber brothers (7mm-08 vs .308, 7mm Rem mag vs 300 win mag, 7mm RUM vs 300 RUM), forget about it...the 30 cals win, period...
As for the side conversation (one that keeps happening over and over again), comparing the various 7mm's to their 30 caliber brothers (7mm-08 vs .308, 7mm Rem mag vs 300 win mag, 7mm RUM vs 300 RUM), forget about it...the 30 cals win, period...
Until you include the 8mm's and the 33's. Everything has something bigger/better/faster waiting in the wings. - dan
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
Well, yes Dan.
The 7mm's are good.
The .30's are better.
The .338's are...betterester???
I'm a longtime fan of 338's, but the problem is once you get to .338's, you need huge amounts of powder to push high BC bullets (250 grains plus) to "real" magnum velocities that lots of guys crave. Even the great .338 Win Mag, is marginal in terms of "magnumness" with heavy .338 bullets. Really, the .338's don't start to shine until you're shooting at least 250 grain bullets over 90+ grains of powder. Now we're really, really far away from the 7mm-08 in terms of user comfort or cost, or ....
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
I would say the 175s would be pushing the limit of the case. I run a .284 and find that I am at the limit trying to get the velocity I want with a 26" barrel out of my 180s. For all the bullet weights designed for the 7-08, I am a true believer in the 7mm family. When I shoot out my .308, it will likely be reborn as a 7-08 or a 260
I shoot 7-08s as well as other larger and smaller calibers... 7-08 is fine for hunting, drops Moose real good - and deer is a no brainer... where it shines, but isn't used for very much, is long range target/gongs - 7-08 with 140gr Berger drops much less than 308/3006 loaded with 168-175gr SMK's, and at long distance, has a lot of energy left (check out ballistic tables for all that fine info) with significantly less recoil. Its a hand loaders dream.
Anyhow, my gal likes hers, she can shoot 50 rounds easy at the range without any complaints.
IMHO, its another of the highly underrated cartridges out there.
Anyhow, my gal likes hers, she can shoot 50 rounds easy at the range without any complaints.
IMHO, its another of the highly underrated cartridges out there.
I use either 139 or 154 Hornady bullets.
well if on the net now we have real world experience where are we heading .... lol
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Both my sons shoot 7mm08's and I shoot a couple of 7x57's as well as many other cartridges. The 7-08 is the smallest fully capable general hunting cartridge in my opinion. Recoil is low enough for youngster and small persons to shoot them well. Both my sons have killed elk with one shot with theirs, using regular 140 gr core lokt Remingtons.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
To answer the OP's query, the 7mm-08 can do the job on any big game on the planet. If the shooter stalks
within 100 yds. or less and is a sure shot on standing game, and uses the right bullet matched for said game,
then a successful outcome may be assured. Big bears, bison and moose are easily taken with carefully placed
shots with good ammo.
Most rifles chambered for the 7mm-08 are a tad short in the magazine length for the 160-175 gr. projectiles to
be seated ideally for "match accuracy" but it's no big deal to work up a load that will throw a 175 gr. Grand Slam at 2400 fps. using Win. 760 powder. Chamber pressure is around 48,000 and your brass will last a bit more.
The 7x57 will toss the same bullet at the same velocity at a chamber pressure of around 45,700 psi. and this cartridge has nuked thousands of cape buffalo & elephants back in the day by hunters that were intimately familiar with their rifles, loads & skills. Folks like Bell did not push the envelope on range of shot or hyper-velocity.
The poor shmucks like Lord Grey who went the "Idiot Ass" root with the .280 Ross speed demon cartridge
back then paid the ultimate price for shooting at a charging lion with a load designed for antelope.
Live and learn.
within 100 yds. or less and is a sure shot on standing game, and uses the right bullet matched for said game,
then a successful outcome may be assured. Big bears, bison and moose are easily taken with carefully placed
shots with good ammo.
Most rifles chambered for the 7mm-08 are a tad short in the magazine length for the 160-175 gr. projectiles to
be seated ideally for "match accuracy" but it's no big deal to work up a load that will throw a 175 gr. Grand Slam at 2400 fps. using Win. 760 powder. Chamber pressure is around 48,000 and your brass will last a bit more.
The 7x57 will toss the same bullet at the same velocity at a chamber pressure of around 45,700 psi. and this cartridge has nuked thousands of cape buffalo & elephants back in the day by hunters that were intimately familiar with their rifles, loads & skills. Folks like Bell did not push the envelope on range of shot or hyper-velocity.
The poor shmucks like Lord Grey who went the "Idiot Ass" root with the .280 Ross speed demon cartridge
back then paid the ultimate price for shooting at a charging lion with a load designed for antelope.
Live and learn.
Why is it that some use an uber magnum for game but suggest a 7-08 for their wives/kids/girlfriends for the same game??
Because you would also impose certain limitations with its use that you do not want for yourself.
The 7mm-08, or mauser version is going to be fine for all your common North American big game, but excluding Bison and really big bears.
As for the side conversation (one that keeps happening over and over again), comparing the various 7mm's to their 30 caliber brothers (7mm-08 vs .308, 7mm Rem mag vs 300 win mag, 7mm RUM vs 300 RUM), forget about it...the 30 cals win, period...
Care to explain how, exactly?
I did some fiddling with Hornady's ballistic calculator, using 139 and 154 grain 7mm SST bullets, compared to 165 and 180 grain 30-06 SST bullets, using the listed velocities on their website for everything but the 154 grain 7mm, because its not offered in a pre-made cartridge. For that, I used google to find what someone is claiming their load does.
Of these four bullets, the one with the highest sectional density is the 154 grain 7mm (.273) (although the 139 grain 7mm was the lowest, its very close to the 165 grain .30cal, while the .30cal 180 grain bullet was just slightly behind the 154 grain 7mm bullet.)
Ballistic coefficient for the 154 7mm was also higher than that of the 180 grain .30cal bullet
If you compare the 139 grain 7mm to the 165 grain 30-06 factory ammo from Hornady, The 7mm is a bit faster with a bit less energy at 300 and 500 yards. The same can be said about comparing the 154 7mm to the 180 30-06. About 50 fps faster, while 50-75 ft/lbs of energy less. I bet if I did these comparisons with a .308 the 7mm will have more velocity and the same or more energy.
If you compare the 154 grain 7mm to the 165 grain 30-06, the 7mm looks really good, its only when you compare the heavier bullets (180+) that the 30-06 really shows its usefulness.
I hunted moose with a 7x57 for several years.
Bullets used were the 140 Partition at 2950, and the 160 Partition at 2750
With 8 shots fired, I killed 8 moose, and never had to chase one anywhere after the shot.
During that time, I also shot 2 Elk [one cow, one a good bull] and there also, two well placed shots did the job.
Ranges varied from 65 yards right out to 422 yards.
Since the 7-08 is right on the heels of a properly loaded 7x57, I see no reason why there should be any doubt as to it's capability.
To the OP...your wife should do just fine with the 7-08. Mild-mannered and effective.
Regards, Dave.
Bullets used were the 140 Partition at 2950, and the 160 Partition at 2750
With 8 shots fired, I killed 8 moose, and never had to chase one anywhere after the shot.
During that time, I also shot 2 Elk [one cow, one a good bull] and there also, two well placed shots did the job.
Ranges varied from 65 yards right out to 422 yards.
Since the 7-08 is right on the heels of a properly loaded 7x57, I see no reason why there should be any doubt as to it's capability.
To the OP...your wife should do just fine with the 7-08. Mild-mannered and effective.
Regards, Dave.
On the wife note, its not that I am looking for a gun for her or anything, this would be my gun... If she likes it, she can get her own, or find something else that she likes more (I was thinking 6.5x55 swede or .243win for her realistically, but thats still a ways off) but I would prefer to have a gun she can shoot. If I bought a 30-06 or something she wouldn't be able to shoot it at all, and Im not sure my .22lr is enough to get her hooked (Also, is it just me, or do women not find the SKS as ###y as I do? lol)
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My wife shoots her .30/06 just fine, so have a raft of kids, some of them pretty young. If you load 125 gr Sierras to 2600, she will shoot the '06 without complaint. Now whether or not she enjoys shooting is up to her, but if she doesn't, it will have nothing to do with the mild recoil and blast generated by that load. Regardless of what rifle she ends up with, your wife will feel more recoil if the stock is too long for her, and unless you're the same size, this will probably be the case if she uses your rifle. If you want her to enjoy this pastime with you, the rifle must fit her or she won't like it, because it will feel clumsy and the recoil will hurt her when she presses the trigger. Choose a rifle chambered for a mild cartridge, or handload her ammo to a moderate level, and shorten the LOP. With good quality recoil pad like a Decelerator or a Limbsaver installed, she should be able to easily reach the trigger with the butt of the rifle placed in the crook of her arm, while she's wearing the coat she would normally wear outdoors. This will make the LOP a tad short if she's shooting in warm weather without a jacket or heavy sweater, but a bit short is more manageable than too long, and doesn't increase felt recoil. I like a 13.5" LOP for myself, and my wife's rifle is 12", yet I can shoot her rifle without discomfort with full powered loads.
If anyone is serious about becoming a good marksman, an SKS is the last rifle they should learn on. A good trigger is probably the single most important element of the rifle, as good shooting can be accomplished with poor sights, and a clumsy, ill fitting stock, but without a good trigger all is lost. Once basic marksmanship fundamentals have been mastered, and the individual becomes competent and confident in their ability with a rifle, a fast shooting fun gun can liven up those trips to the range or afield, but until then an SKS is not a rifle I would want a novice to have much contact with. I don't have anything against a decent semi-auto rifle, but ARs, which are probably the most affordable of the breed, are far too heavily restricted to be used as sporting arms at this particular time in our history, although if that was to change, an AR chambered in 6.8 would be a consideration. A Browning BAR seems to be a good rifle, and if I was looking at a semi-auto hunting rifle, it would be a BAR or a Benelli R-1.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
To answer the OP's query, the 7mm-08 can do the job on any big game on the planet. If the shooter stalks
within 100 yds. or less and is a sure shot on standing game, and uses the right bullet matched for said game,
then a successful outcome may be assured. Big bears, bison and moose are easily taken with carefully placed
shots with good ammo.
Most rifles chambered for the 7mm-08 are a tad short in the magazine length for the 160-175 gr. projectiles to
be seated ideally for "match accuracy" but it's no big deal to work up a load that will throw a 175 gr. Grand Slam at 2400 fps. using Win. 760 powder. Chamber pressure is around 48,000 and your brass will last a bit more.
The 7x57 will toss the same bullet at the same velocity at a chamber pressure of around 45,700 psi. and this cartridge has nuked thousands of cape buffalo & elephants back in the day by hunters that were intimately familiar with their rifles, loads & skills. Folks like Bell did not push the envelope on range of shot or hyper-velocity.
The poor shmucks like Lord Grey who went the "Idiot Ass" root with the .280 Ross speed demon cartridge
back then paid the ultimate price for shooting at a charging lion with a load designed for antelope.
Live and learn.
Of course you know that shooting a charging animal coming straight in, particularly one as fast as a lion, is a difficult marksmanship problem as one tends to hit where the lion was. Thus many hunters have come in second place against lions at short range, even if they were armed with .577s. Back in the days of the .280 Ross, bullet performance was, at best, suspect when impact velocity exceeded 2500 fps, so if one does the math, we see that a difficult marksmanship problem, + poor bullet performance = a dead hunter.
Several years ago, I met a lady. We started dating. She lived in Calgary, I, in Cold Lake. We traveled each weekend. Until October. I told her not to bother coming up, I would be hunting each weekend and wouldn't see her much. She came anyway, was alone all day Saturday, we spent some time together Sunday, and then she went home. Her call. Next April, we were living in same house. June rolls around, my son and I go to the range to start our shooting regimen; choose weapons, choose loads, sight rifles. She had indicated that she hadn't really liked being a hunting widow and wanted to come next year, so I invited her to come along to the range.
Her shooting experience consisted of a BB gun when she was 6. Woman spent money on her fingernails. I figured, this is gonna be hell! Took her and a 10/22. Set her up on the 50yd range, ran her through all the safety stuff, watched her shoot for about 15 minutes at paper and pop cans. She wasn't bad. Then left and went over where my son had gotten everything set up for us.
I no sooner squeezed off my first round. When she was beside me. "This is boring". Are you kidding me?? This is why you never take a woman to a range!! You never get anything done for you!! Anyway, I NEVER go to the range without taking an SKS to play with between shots to allow barrels to cool. So, I took it out, set her up on the bench beside mine, handed her 200rnds, explained loading and operation. Off she went. The rifle is scoped. After the first 5rounds, she was grinning from ear to ear. She adopted my SKS, decided to try hunting, shot herself a doe with that rifle that season. Hunted with me ever since. She STIL thinks " her" SKS is ###y. And her nails don't get done from September to end of November. Too hard the load her rifles.
Actually my wife started with an SKS (which became hers) then became rather addicted to the Benelli R1 300 WM I had at the time, which is quite a different cost in ammo to plink with lol.
The only thing she didn't like about the SKS was the cleaning.By the sounds of it the 7-08 is a good path to follow for your needs. I may be going the same route cartridge wise for similar reasons.
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I see what you are saying here, but a few things dont quite add up for me. First, I dont reload. I plan to start reloading in the future, which is part of the reason I like the 7mm-08 (Factory ammo is not as readily available as others like 308 and 30-06) but I dont want to rely on needing to reload (Or find fancy low-recoil factory loads) for the wife to be able to shoot.
I case I didn't get my point across, my wife is tiny. I know 11 year olds bigger than her. I am also relatively small, only 5'7, 150lbs.
The gun in mind was a Savage Axis, because they are cheap and I can replace the crappy stock with a Boyds later on, as well as replace the trigger with something better like a rifle basix. I figure start with something that shoots, and then change it to my liking. Upon some searching online, I think I might be looking for a youth model because it has a shorter length of pull. I will have to go hold them both and see which feels better in my hands...although If I plan to replace the stock anyways (which I do) I should probably just get the adult model for the 2" longer barrel...
As far as becoming a good marksman, I totally agree that a good trigger is really important. But this isn't about becoming a marksman, this is about getting the wife interested in shooting, and you dont need a super-amazing trigger to shoot targets at 100 yards.
Im not a big AR fan to begin with, and the fact they are restricted means they are a no-go for me (I have my RPAL, but Im not buying anything I can't play with in the bush right now) so if I wanted to get a semi-auto thats not an SKS, I would probably be looking at a t97 or vz58 - but those are both too rich for my blood, so the SKS is the only semi Im going to have for a while (Maybe get a .22 semi sometime, but that doesn't count) unless I get an SVT-40, which is again probably too much gun for the wife. One of those in her hands would look comical.
As far as the SKS for a novice goes, its my go-to gun for first-timers. Granted its the only centerfire rifle I currently own, but that wont stop me from using it to introduce all my friends to shooting once I have something else. Ammo is cheap, it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, and for a 20-something guy (or girl sometimes) there is just something about the semi-auto that you just can't get with a bolt action. There sheer volume of firepower probably...
