Load Development Shooting 418Gr. Cast Bullets With A Ultralight Pro-Hunter 45-70Govt.

dthunter

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Hello fellow gunners! Thought I would just share a little shooting and load development fun I have had over the last while.

I was shooting my 45-70 T/C Prohunter with the Katadin barrel this last week end.
I was having velocity and grouping issues with every powder I tried. It was getting frustrating! Heavy crimp was tried to improve the burning characteristics (get a better full clean burn) of each powder to no avail.
There was always a significant number of powder grains left in the bore after each round fired. Velocities I wanted was barely being achieved, and accuracy really sucked! I was getting 2-1/2 to 3inch, 5-shot groups at 100.
I could ignore a little unburnt powder, as long as the accuracy was present!
My goal was to develop an accurate hunting load with my 418 Grain Cast Lyman, flat nosed RN. I was hoping to get around the 1350-1450fps range in order to keep the recoil down in my light rifle. This velocity range would be more than sufficient for most hunting here in Alberta.

My powder choices went through the traditional IMR3031,IMR4198, H4198, etc. and eventually "lead" me to try IMR SR4759.

My bullet was Lyman mould/Cast bullet, lube-sized to .459" with Lyman Super Moly.
Bullet alloy was 18lbs. of wheel weight lead + 8 feet of 50/50 lead tin solder. Cast about 10 years ago.

I tried to seat my boolets firmly into the rifling to help get my ignition pressure higher, and hopefully get the powder to burn cleaner and more consistantly.
At this seating depth I could not get a good solid crimp due to the top bearing band being located right at the case crimp line.

Even with IMR SR4759's faster burn rate, it burnt dirty as heck!

After much frustration, I finally decided to try some Dacron between the powder and bullet base. This technique worked wonders in my 308Win, so I figured it should work here.
I also Seated the bullet to the crimp groove again and crimped it heavily as well.

Right from the first shots I could feel and see the difference! I fired the first 5 rounds (24.0 Grains IMR SR4759) and managed to print a 1-3/4" group. With 3 of 5 inside 1-1/4". The bore was as clean as though I patched it!
My Standard deviation was 10.76fps (1330fps velocity). I was very pleased with the improvement.

The load at 25.0 Grains of IMR SR4759 shot into 1-1/2" for 5 rounds, giving me an average velocity of 1388fps, and a standard deviation of 8.83fps! wowzers! I know this is only a 5 shot sampling, but it still started to show a positive trend. The bore once again was clean as a whistle!

My final test load of the day was 26.0 Grains of IMR SR4759, and it gave me a five shot group of 1.25"!
4 of the 5 rounds fired were within 3/4"! Average velocity was 1431fps, Standard Deviation was 3.16fps, Extream spread was 8.11 fps! Bore was clean again.

At 26.0 grains the velocity was around my ideal goal range, and recoil was just on the upper side of comfortable. Perfect!

After confirming the load again, I am very convinced of the merits of Dacron filler on ballistic uniformity!

Printing nice tight groups with a large bore ultralight is a riot!

Here is a picture of the rifle I am working on at this time. It isn't the traditional buffalo style 45-70, but it is a fun compact little package! Hope you like the picture!
 
They are great little rifles! I tried trail Boss, but I had real issues with fliers, and a large S.D. If I could have gotten a consistently accurate load with Trailboss, that would definitely been my pick!
 
Just a word on the SR 4759...buy every bit you can find in your area as it's manufacture has been discontinued. Such a shame as I use it almost exclusively in my large capacity/vintage cases as well.
 
I have an H and R buffalo classic I cast bullets in 405 gr with lots of lube and 20.5 grains of 4198 low pressure and 1400fps a very good load and very accurate.

My mold drops them so big I have to give quite a bit on oomph to close the chamber on the weapon. Which apparently is exactly what you want.
 
Just a word on the SR 4759...buy every bit you can find in your area as it's manufacture has been discontinued. Such a shame as I use it almost exclusively in my large capacity/vintage cases as well.

Yes, its such a shame to have a powder like this discontinued! Fortunately, I wont have any supply issues with the IMR SR4759 for quite some time.
 
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Your load of SR-4759 I pretty much what I use if I'm shooting smokeless powder in my .45-70's for shooting at gongs. H-4198 will work very well too, but I've switched to magnum primers with it ( just don't do that for max loads ). The magnum primers will definitely help that powder in cold weather or with lighter charges.

Chris.
 
Your load of SR-4759 I pretty much what I use if I'm shooting smokeless powder in my .45-70's for shooting at gongs. H-4198 will work very well too, but I've switched to magnum primers with it ( just don't do that for max loads ). The magnum primers will definitely help that powder in cold weather or with lighter charges.

Chris.

My observation with 4759 as well. I have quit using standard primers in my 45-70's pretty much all together.
 
I've never loaded for modest velocity so I can't comment there. But regarding your problem with the case mouth terminating on the driving band can be solved by trimming the case until the case mouth is where you want it.
 
I was trying IMR4350 in my H&R BC and couldn't get full ignition either. 4320 is probably a better choice but I have tons of 4350 LOL! Lot's of unburnt grains in the barrel after a shot. I wonder if some Dacron & a magnum primer with a heavy crimp will cure that? I'll have to load up 5 rounds as an experiment! Where do you get this Dacron filler?
 
I got mine at wallmart.
I purchased the pillow filler dacron.
The stuff I have is 1/2" thick sheets. I just cut a .5" wide stip and cut the proper length piece to just fill the gap between the bullet base and top of the powder.
 
I was trying IMR4350 in my H&R BC and couldn't get full ignition either. 4320 is probably a better choice but I have tons of 4350 LOL! Lot's of unburnt grains in the barrel after a shot. I wonder if some Dacron & a magnum primer with a heavy crimp will cure that? I'll have to load up 5 rounds as an experiment! Where do you get this Dacron filler?[/QUOTE]

Any fabric shop will have it in bulk rolls. A meter will last a loooong time.

I would sure try a heavy crimp. Opinions on crimping vary from "useless to very necessary". Personally I use a heavy crimp & mag primers and have never had an over abundance of un-burnt in a straight walled case. I would make changes or not make changes more based on bullet strikes on paper/ group size more than some un-burnt powder.
 
Thanks about the Dacron .... will pick some up! I assume it burns cleanly & there are no barrel cleaning/wear considerations?
I agree groups count more than some unburnt powder but it's the principal of the thing ..... would like to get the most out of what I put in if that makes any sense? That or change to a faster powder & sell the 4350? Groups were actually encouraging as I had one load (51.5 grns) that did show promise with a 1" 4 shot group at 100 yards with a 5th flier 1" outside of that (my fault probably!) so if I go with the magnumprimer/dacron/heavyish crimp I might be on to something. I might find the preferred powder load shifts but that's OK if I'm getting full ignition, more consistent fps and tight groups.
Thanks guys! Something to work on over Jan/Feb!
 
Bolton, do you have a chronograph, if not get one. They don't break the bank as they did 20 yrs ago. I found one useful when I shot modern high speed guns...now that I shoot the "old, large capacity BP cases" to BP velocities with smokeless powder, I find my chrono one of the most important tools I have.

You may discover that you can "back off" your charge until you have no powder residue and still be at a useful velocity.
 
Bolton, do you have a chronograph, if not get one. They don't break the bank as they did 20 yrs ago. I found one useful when I shot modern high speed guns...now that I shoot the "old, large capacity BP cases" to BP velocities with smokeless powder, I find my chrono one of the most important tools I have.

You may discover that you can "back off" your charge until you have no powder residue and still be at a useful velocity.

No, I don't have a chronograph but have been pondering one for some time. Was thinking of the Beta Master Chrony but I don't want to derail the topic from shooting cast. The notion of "back off" your charge until you have no powder residue and still be at a useful velocity." is something I hadn't thought of & is VERY intriguing! Thanks. Guess I know what I'll ask Santa for!
 
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