Load-out Question

lupothebutcher

lupothebutcher

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Hi guys,
Just wondering if anyone knows what the standard British / Canadian WW1 magazine load-out for the no1 mk3 SMLE was; was the rifle issued with just one magazine and some stripper clips or did they have several magazines? I imagine guys found as many as they wanted but what was the standard regulation load?
I could ask the same question about WW2 and the no4 mk1 and Korea.

Thanks for any info
 
1 mag in the rifle and about 120 rounds on chargers carried in the P 08 webbing and more in bandoliers if needed usually stored in the small pack is what I have generally read for WW1.

WW2 and Korea would probably be the same or less with the addition of bren gun mags or sten gun mags. I cant recall any numbers off the top of my head but usually all of it was on chargers plus 1 or 2 bandoliers.
 
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Definitely chargers and bandoliers...that's what the Enfield was designed for...charger loading.

Slung cloth bandoliers held 2 x 5 round chargers per pocket.

IIRC there were 6 pockets...so...typical war load would be 65 rounds plus whatever the wiser soldiers would squirrel away in their webbing pouches.
 
Both correct. AR style magazine swaps are really a sub-machine gun type of thing. (WW2 think Tommy,Sten,MP40,PPSH ect.) All pistol cartridges preloaded into replaceable magazines. With bolt action battle rifles of this era, the magazine was considered more like a "box mag" that stayed with and in the rifle. The magazine was loaded from the bridge via chargers (stripper clips).
 
To answer your question about WW2, I am currently in the middle of reading a book about D-Day on Juno beach. Brackets are my input.

"Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders Private Danny Darling weighted his gear and discovered it tallied seventy eight pound. His kit was basically the same as every other Glen carried. He carried two Bren gun magazines, two No36 grenades (mills bombs), one No75 anti tank grenade (AKA Hawkins Grenade), two smoke grenades, one No69 (a slightly less destructive) grenade and three bandoliers of rifle ammunition (150 rounds), besides socks, towel, gas cape, respirator, ground sheets, a small collapsible bicycle, two 24 hour ration pack and a commando knife."

The SDGH were part of the 9 Infantry Brigade and were to land after the beached were taken. They were expected to ride the bikes on to their objectives. Troops of the initial assault waves often carried more ammo and grenades in place of the bikes. Later in the book it also talks of the airborne stuffing ammo, grenade and explosives anywhere they could find a place, including in the helmet.
 
Thanks for the info; this basically confirms what I thought I knew. Im sure that if I had been there I would have gotten hold of two or three extra magazines but of course most ammo would be in bandoliers; i could also see myself dragging about an ammo can whenever possible.
 
You would soon have realised that extra magazines for the No.4 rifle were not preferable to bandoliers of clipped ammunition. The rifle and its magazine are not designed for quick magazine changes and the size and shape of the mag (and extra weight of metal) would not make it more convenient to carry extras than it was to use ammo clipped in chargers. And you would have been well practised in reloading quickly with that ammo using the rifle's built-in charger bridge.
 
Also, remember the common practice was to shoot 5 then reload, not to allow the rifle to ever be empty. Chargers allow the rifle to be kept ready constantly, and weigh less than magazines. In skilled hands the speed difference is negligible.
 
The Brits apparently tried issuing spare magazines for earlier incarnations of the Lee Metford/Enfield. It was found the magazines were too fragile outside of the rifle, easily damaged in combat or lost. The chargers are a far quicker and easier way to load anyway.
 
"...I had been there I would have..." No place to get 'em. No extra mags anywhere. Pick one up from a fallen buddy and his rifle is a single shot. Oh and the RSM said he wants a word with you. snicker.
In the middle of re-reading Pierre Burton's Vimy. There was a guy who humped a 225 pound box of Lewis gun mags until he got hit by frag.
"...dumping non essential kit..." Yep. Mind you, you'd get fined for doing it.
 
sunray said:
"...dumping non essential kit..." Yep. Mind you, you'd get fined for doing it.
Click to expand...

Mind you, I have read and seen a lot of picture to support it, that very soon after getting off the beaches, most guys would ditch the entrenching tool and pick up a shovel or pick.

RWR - Note the shovel on the guy at the left.
Canada+x


Algonquin Regiment, 10CIB, 4CAD - At least the first 3 guys have a shovel
ALGONQUIN+REGIMENT


I could go on, but the point being, the shovel got you in the ground a lot quick than the e-tool. A very important factor when Fritz is shoosting at you.
 
Cdn303 said:
Mind you, I have read and seen a lot of picture to support it, that very soon after getting off the beaches, most guys would ditch the entrenching tool and pick up a shovel or pick.

RWR - Note the shovel on the guy at the left.
Canada+x


Algonquin Regiment, 10CIB, 4CAD - At least the first 3 guys have a shovel
ALGONQUIN+REGIMENT


I could go on, but the point being, the shovel got you in the ground a lot quick than the e-tool. A very important factor when Fritz is shoosting at you.
Click to expand...

this is a canadian thing, it was not a pick up, it was issued rather than the E-tool, and made canadian units much disliked by the enemy, they could be fully dug in before tea was brewed
 
X2 ^ That is issued kit. Much film footage of Canadian units hitting the beach heads with these strapped spade up on their backs. Which I always thought a poor placement especially if going prone...apparently these Canucks agreed and found a slightly less annoying placement. Cool pic.
 
The LE mag was removable only for replacement purposes.

Most rifles of the day were 5 shot, with the mag box internal to the rifle and out of the way to avoid damage.

The LE went with a longer, and exposed 10 shot mag. This was a clear advantage, but put the mag at risk of a dent that would bind up the follower.

The design incorporated two features to justify the risk: The mag was made fatter than required, and had creases down the side. Any dent would have to be deeper than the crease to bind it up; and the mag was easily replaced, if damaged.

The Ross is an example of an extended mag that is not easily replaced in the field.

I have shot matches against the clock with a #4, and can say that for me, it is much faster to reload with a charger clip than to change the mag. The mag release is awkward with cold hands.
 
I snicker whenever I go into a shoot in which other LE rifles are being used.

Guys swapping-out mags everywhere, rounds falling into the dirt/snow/skidding on the ice/plopping into the mud. They fumble the one mag off, try to fumble on a fresh one, mash the feed lips, spew rounds all over half of Creation, curse the damned old Rifle because it won't FEED, move about so much that a '42 could blow 'em all off with a couple of quick bursts.

Stupid. And dead. And they REFUSE to listen.

Reloading from Chargers is much less work, much less fumbling about, MUCH FASTER and your rounds don't get lost/bent/mudded/stomped.

The Army KNEW WHAT IT WAS DOING when they called back all those spare mags... about 1890... and then CHAINED the Mag to the Mark II LM... and started working on a Charger.
 
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