Even where people close up their guns before their turn, I've never seen it being acceptable to change stations with a shell in the gun, or the action closed. When moving guns are to always be open and empty.
Loaded & closed on the Trap field
- Thread starter Bigbubba
- Start date
Even where people close up their guns before their turn, I've never seen it being acceptable to change stations with a shell in the gun, or the action closed. When moving guns are to always be open and empty.
I agree that if you can't keep your firearm pointed in a safe direction, especially if loaded and or closed, you shouldn't be at the range period, however I like the rhythm of people being ready to shoot on their turn.
As to shooting the trap house, I've only ever shot it when it was my turn to shoot, so no amount of open/closed rules was going to save it!
I should add, although I'll defend those who close before their turn, if the club rules are closed till your turn, while I may disagree with them, I would follow them, and expect others to as well. On the trap line is not the place to argue that, at the AGM would be the time to bring it up.
As to shooting the trap house, I've only ever shot it when it was my turn to shoot, so no amount of open/closed rules was going to save it!
I should add, although I'll defend those who close before their turn, if the club rules are closed till your turn, while I may disagree with them, I would follow them, and expect others to as well. On the trap line is not the place to argue that, at the AGM would be the time to bring it up.
Thanks for the input guys.
I always keep mine open until it is my turn and I dont have any trouble keeping the rythem of the squad going.
The added issuses are what some have previously listed - release triggers, trap malfunctions, distractions, broken birds, etc all contribute and thats why I like to see actions open until it is your turn (shell can be in action, but action open)
I always keep mine open until it is my turn and I dont have any trouble keeping the rythem of the squad going.
The added issuses are what some have previously listed - release triggers, trap malfunctions, distractions, broken birds, etc all contribute and thats why I like to see actions open until it is your turn (shell can be in action, but action open)
trapandhunt
Regular
- Location
- the rock (nl)
Our rules are only closed at ur turn double barrles can be reloaded just not closed and dont raise the gun tell its ur turn. If there are semis or pumps no shells in tell ur turn and actions all way open tell its ur turn. That is at all times on our range whitch includes ata shoots.
I don't think it's so much a rhythm thing or even a safety issue so much as it is a distraction watching your bird come out of the house because the idiot next to you racked his pump gun closed and set off your microphone.
All kidding aside, what people seem to struggle with is that shooting trap, skeet, sporting, or bunker is not the same as shooting at a range. Trap, skeet, sporting and bunker are all games played at a range, meaning that the players must abide by both the range's rules and the game's.
Comparing shooting trap to shooting a pistol or rifle at a range is apples and oranges; you may as well compare shooting an IPSC match to plinking in your spare time.
All kidding aside, what people seem to struggle with is that shooting trap, skeet, sporting, or bunker is not the same as shooting at a range. Trap, skeet, sporting and bunker are all games played at a range, meaning that the players must abide by both the range's rules and the game's.
Comparing shooting trap to shooting a pistol or rifle at a range is apples and oranges; you may as well compare shooting an IPSC match to plinking in your spare time.
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- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
The open gun riul is a safety rule, it has nothing to do with improving one's shooting.
The reason I brought up the pistol and rifle range was because it was asked , but safety should always be in the for front of our minds....
Cat
- Location
- Lloydminster SK
Or switched back to a pull trigger after using a release for a while. Mount up and send the shot sailing. Then call for the bird.
dinsdale
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just outside the Ottawa City Limits!
People are comparing it because people are claiming it is unsafe.
It isn't if the shooters follow safety rules.
Follow all the rules you want. It will never be as safe as closing the action only when it is your turn to shoot,regardless where you point the gun .I shoot with guys that will hold the shell in their hand until it is their turn, then load and lock.No one complains about the flow.
Funny, all the years shooting competition trap, never had a problem.
Yes the release trigger guys shoot sometimes before calling.
I think the competitive trap shooters shoot so much they are more carefull, I'll tell you if a guy screws up nobody will squad with them!
Yes the release trigger guys shoot sometimes before calling.
I think the competitive trap shooters shoot so much they are more carefull, I'll tell you if a guy screws up nobody will squad with them!
The ATA rules don't prohibit the practice and I don't regard it as unsafe to have a loaded and closed gun on the firing line providing the barrels are pointed forward and the shooter's finger is not on the trigger. When not on the firing line or in the rack however the gun must be empty and open at all times.
I knew that we stood on the line with guns open and closed them when it was our turn to shoot at our club. But then I wondered if it actually was a club rule and went to check. It is and it's posted. Our 'club' rules say that you should close your action when it is your turn to shoot. So, I guess it comes down to which club you are at. I just keep the same approach when I go to other clubs. I guess there are some groups out there that are into some form of rhythm and I haven't run into them yet. Felt the courtesy comment was a good one. It doesn't seem feel like good manners to me to close your action when it is some other guys turn to shoot. My $0.02.
Where did you get that claybuster??Only the SHOOTER ( one dude not all 5)can have a closed action in ata. Others ( refered to as contestants)can position a live shell but not close the action.
10. All guns must have the action opened and contain no live or empty
shells at any time, except while the shooter is on the firing line. A break
open gun’s action may be closed when it is in a gun rack but it shall
not contain a live or empty shell. Repeat offender(s) of these Official
Rules will be given a 30 day suspension upon a second violation of
these Rules; a third violation of these Rules will result in a 90 day
suspension; and further violations will be reviewed by the Executive
Committee for further disciplinary action.
12. A contestant shall place a live shell in his/her gun only when on a
post facing the traps.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
To add to the discussion, lets not forget:
ATA Official Rules Sept 1 2010, Section IV. ATA Tournaments, I. Safety, para 14 (page 17)
14. A contestant may hold his/her gun in any position when it is his/her turn to shoot. The contestant must in no manner interfere with the preceding shooter by raising his/her gun to point or otherwise create an observable distraction.
ATA Official Rules Sept 1 2010, Section IV. ATA Tournaments, I. Safety, para 14 (page 17)
14. A contestant may hold his/her gun in any position when it is his/her turn to shoot. The contestant must in no manner interfere with the preceding shooter by raising his/her gun to point or otherwise create an observable distraction.
I'm not a trap shooter, but I've read many rulebooks for many different sports. My interpretation of what is pasted above goes like this;
When shooter is not on the line, gun is open, and no ammo within.
While shooting, all 5 shooters are on the line and may have closed loaded guns as long as they are on a post facing the traps. Having a shell in a closed gun is not prohibited by 11. or 12.
Rule 11 covers gun safety while not on the line.
Rule 12 defines when a shooter is on the line.
Brad.
The word shooter is where I don't agree with your interputation nor does the clubs I shoot at.
There is 5 guys on the line yes but only one at a time are they the actual shooter, the next guy is waiting to shoot and not the shooter
So one guy with a closed action, if it was ok for the 5 it would say shooters on the firing line in the rules but it doesn't. Shooter on the firing line is one guy at a time.
I got it from the ATA. During one of my first registered shoots some years ago I asked about a shooter who loaded and closed his gun immediately after he shot. I was told it was within the rules providing he wasn't moving between stations and this his muzzle was pointed forward. This was subsequently confirmed by the ATA in Vandalia
The word "only" isn't in the ATA rule. The rule is interpreted by the ATA that all persons on the line are considered "shooters." If it only meant the shooter whose turn it is to fire then it would be more specific.
I don't like the way this rule is worded or interpreted. When shooting trap I do not close my gun until the previous shooter has fired and prefer others in the squad do the same. Were up to me I'd amend it to "only the person whose turn it is to fire."
Be interesting to ask them today to see what they say. You get shot by the guy next to you and it is not his turn someone is going to be paying out a huge settlement since a lawyer will have an easy time with the way it is written.Shooter is one, shooters is more than one regardless what the ATA is saying that is how the court would see it.
I guess some guys just like to risk the two balls they were given knowing they can live with one shot off.I have never shot with guys that close there action prior so would say something for sure.
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Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
If you get outside of one or two local clubs you will find that the practice is to close the gun on the firing line prior to your turn to shoot.
I recently had a complaint at a registered shoot that was somewhat in the same vein as this. I spoke with our ATA Delegate, who has shot ATA for many years and competed in international trap in many foreign countries. He informed me that closing the gun prior to your turn to shoot is not against the rules. He further mentioned that in international trap it is the norm to move from posts 1 through 5 with live ammunition in your hinged gun. You are not allowed to move from post 5 to post 1 with live ammunition in the gun.
I recently had a complaint at a registered shoot that was somewhat in the same vein as this. I spoke with our ATA Delegate, who has shot ATA for many years and competed in international trap in many foreign countries. He informed me that closing the gun prior to your turn to shoot is not against the rules. He further mentioned that in international trap it is the norm to move from posts 1 through 5 with live ammunition in your hinged gun. You are not allowed to move from post 5 to post 1 with live ammunition in the gun.
I am not disputing it just saying I have never seen it but I am a skeet shooter not a serious trap shooter. That being said I am an american by birth and have shot quite a few clubs in ther US with my brothers who still live there and they all have the same rule.This is one of the clubs
http://www.lochravenskeettrap.com/saftey.htm
