Loaded or unloaded?

[mooncoon]

relative to flintlocks, as long as the frizzen is open, the lock cannot spark. As Tiriaq commented, I suspect my reduced bang experience with a percussion gun was more likely a result of residual oil that condensation. Also I would be very hesitant about keeping a loaded muzzle loader in my house or cabin because I expected to use it again the next day. Circumstances change and the charge remains and is forgotten about etc. Some years ago, a gunsmith friend managed to shoot the wall of his shop with the loaded barrel of a double shotgun. Customer wanted the breach plug or nipple removed (can't remember) and was asked "is the gun loaded ---- definitely not" He then checked one barrel with a ramrod and it was definitely empty and he did not check the other barrel. Needed heat on the breach of the other barrel and the gun was in his vice. On about the fourth cycle of heating and cooling ----Kablam

cheers mooncoon

 

[NaturalPath]

I would think that a device that could be pushed securely into the touch hole would certainly be an easier, and more effective, way of ensuring that the charge in the barrel cannot be ignited accidentally. After all, even if the frizzen is pushed forward, or the flint is removed, a spark from any other source could still set off the main charge in the barrel.

 

[WRENCHGOD]

Side note, how do you guys unload them. They used to make a co2 thing for cleaning computers that was modified for them but I haven't been able to find them on line. Is this something you guys are making or is there another trick that I haven't learned. All I have had in the past is the screw on the rod which is fine for cheep cast but I have never shot sabots yet. Planning on using one for hunting next year so I'm glad this came up.

 

[WRENCHGOD]

I would think that a device that could be pushed securely into the touch hole would certainly be an easier, and more effective, way of ensuring that the charge in the barrel cannot be ignited accidentally. After all, even if the frizzen is pushed forward, or the flint is removed, a spark from any other source could still set off the main charge in the barrel.

I was told a feather works well.

 

[infideleggwelder]

in ontario, removal of the flint is acceptable for unloading purposes. its in the regs

 

[Curly1]

Wendell gave the correct answer with ref, it is item 10(1) (b) again for those that missed it. It's federal and some provincial hunting regs may differ, but, here in NS and other areas, remove the cap or flint and your good to go as far as the feds and province go.

Stolen from Wendell's post:

"10 (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and

(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.

<http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-2.html#docCont>"


On a side note, I have wondered how my non-cartridge, breach loading black powder rifle would be viewed, is it still a muzzle loader and can I get away with just removing the cap? (fyi I chose to unload completely cause I cannot afford nor do I don't want to be the test case)

 

[WRENCHGOD]

"10 (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and

(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed

I'm going to have to look that up because as I read that with the and I would be in trouble if I was transporting an unloaded ML if the flint was still in it. Isn't it an OR?

This is the wording on the CFC site. Anyone have the direct link to their PDF?

[h=2]Storing and transporting black powder firearms[/h]As set out in regulations supporting the Firearms Act , individuals are required to store and transport all firearms, including antique firearms, safely to deter loss, theft and accidents. All firearms must be unloaded for storage and transportation.
Exception: Black powder muzzleloaders do not have to be unloaded when they are being transported between hunting sites if their firing cap or flint has been removed.

 

[NaturalPath]

Here's the discharger you were asking about WRENCHGOD. Other than that, a screw attachment on the end of your ram rod, for pulling out the ball/bullet is also available.

http://tinyurl.com/h6nhevr

 

[WRENCHGOD]

a screw attachment on the end of your ram rod, for pulling out the ball/bullet is also available.

Thanks By the attachment, do you mean the one that looks like a drywall screw on the end. I have one but have always been reluctant to try any of the cool sabots in fear of having to try and screw that into something like a Barns solid. Ill pick up one of the dischargers for my kit.

 

[Sharps '63]

That makes it convenient, doesn't it? A cap lock shooter merely has to put on a cap whereas the flinter has to mount a flint and hope that he got it positioned right to spark on the first attempt. Brilliant bureaucratic solution.

in ontario, removal of the flint is acceptable for unloading purposes. its in the regs

 

[Sharps '63]

Yeah, like a vehicle fire, the dropped ash from a cigar or cigarette, lightning strike, etc., etc. ......

After all, even if the frizzen is pushed forward, or the flint is removed, a spark from any other source could still set off the main charge in the barrel.

 

[NaturalPath]

Yep, that's what I'm referring to WRENCHGOD. I haven't actually used one myself, and I don't know how well they would work on the conicals, maybe someone with experience can answer that.

I hear what you're saying Sharps '63, and the context in which you are saying it. I don't disagree with you at all. I was just putting that forward in reference to the law that requires the removal of the flint. In my opinion, it would be much easier, and more effective, to block the touch hole, and I think I remember seeing that somewhere, when I was, in fact, going through all the laws regarding flintlocks. I'll have to see if I can locate it again.

 

[Sharps '63]

The technique of plugging the vent hole with a feather is actually historic. It both prevented an accidental discharge and guaranteed a clear vent. I used to use a round toothpick as they were more at hand than a feather. The subtleties of using a flintlock were worked out long ago.

Bear in mind that the flint era lasted 300 years, the percussion era barely 25 before self contained cartridges came along. In my experience, flintlocks are more reliable than percussion rifles. I shot a .50 Green River Forge "Astorian" and a 20 ga HBC "trade gun" by the same maker. Both had well tuned locks.

The only percussion rifles I ever had any faith in were my P-H Enfields.

 

[NaturalPath]

I found where I saw the reference to the vent hole, as far as a flintlock being considered loaded. It was under the Fish and Wildlife Act of Ontario, where, it states that a gun is considered loaded if;

(c) in the case of a muzzle-loading gun to which clause (b) does not apply, there is a charge of powder and a projectile in the barrel and the vent is unplugged;

I know that the federal laws are different, but I knew that I saw a reference to the vent hole, and I just wanted to find where that was. This wording seems to suggest that if the vent hole was plugged, then the gun could be considered unloaded. So, I think that one would have a leg to stand on, if stopped by a CO, but not so much is stopped by the RCMP.