loading 45/70 and looking for help!

[.22LRGUY]

Hey guys-so much YouTube content out there, yet so much of it poorly lit/photographed..and missing information. While my search there hasn't yielded much, I'm hoping the collective here on CGN will help boost my confidence. Here is the situation;

I've been reloading maybe 9-10 years, but never straight wall cases, and certainly never anything that requires crimping. Gun is an 1895G, and my gear is as follows;

RCBS "partner" press (small, single-stage but capable)
LEE 45/70 dies (new, untouched)
Lyman case trimmer
Lyman digital scale with built-in trickler
RCBS hand priming tool
Various powder funnels, mostly caliber-specific
BULLETS (2 types, from Budget Shooter Supply, I believe both are 405gr, one is a SP)
BRASS from BSS as well
CCI 200 large rifle primers

I've loaded .223 (lots), .243, 204 Ruger and 17 Hornet. Still load 204 and 17 hornet. I'm assuming the case sizing, trimming, deburring/chamfering, priming, powder charging, bullet seating is all the same, but that's as far as my experience will take me I think. (though feel free to correct me/make suggestions on any of the above) I understand the need for crimping in magnum/tube-fed guns, but here is what I need help understanding;

1.what exactly does "gas check" mean when referring to bullets?
2.is it the seating die that crimps at the end of the stroke?
3.how far does the bullet need to be seated (work to OAL specs?)
4.what role does the cannelure play, and how does it relate to crimping/location TO crimp? (or does it)

I'm sure some of the more experienced are likely chuckling over some of these questions, but we all have to start somewhere. lol I've loaded the aforementioned calibers with great success, work slowly/meticulously...and pretty much NEVER load to even the maximum powder spec. While the bullet choice might suggest otherwise, I have no large game aspirations for this caliber. Target shooting/plinking only. I'm receptive to using lighter bullets as a result, and would welcome recommendations and/or load data.

Not recoil shy, more thinking that target loads needn't have full power/consume as much powder. Happy to load these heavy bullets as required, and happy to buy more bullets and load lighter stuff too.

Hoping someone feels like helping me out, I appreciate you all considering the request.

Thank-you, honestly!

 

[pacobillie]

To answer your questions:

1.what exactly does "gas check" mean when referring to bullets?

A: A gas check is a copper disc that is added to the base of a cast lead bullet, and held by a crimp. Its purpose is to prevent combustion gases to get by the bullet at rifle and magnum revolver velocities and melt it, thus preventing barrel leading.

2.is it the seating die that crimps at the end of the stroke?

Lee seating dies do not crimp. You will need a separate "factory crimp die"

3.how far does the bullet need to be seated (work to OAL specs?)

Seat the bullet to COAL specs

4.what role does the cannelure play, and how does it relate to crimping/location TO crimp? (or does it)

It depends on the bullet. On jacketed bullets it is for crimping. On cast lead bullets, it may also be to hold the bullet lube. On Barnes and other mono-metal bullets, it is meant to allow the metal to flow, once the bullet engages the rifling, to avoid excess pressure.

 

[Stripes]

2.is it the seating die that crimps at the end of the stroke?

Lee seating dies do not crimp. You will need a separate "factory crimp die"

The Lee seating die will roll crimp. It's what I use for my hardcast loads. The factory crimp die is far superior for everything else however

 

[Workin Man]

If you are using jacketed bullets and you are going to roll crimp, you need to have the bullet seated so the case mouth will crimp into the cannelure. If you are using cast bullets and/or a Lee factory crimp die, having the cannelure line up with the case mouth isn't necessarily required .

Jim

 

[enefgee]

Roll crimp is fine for all cartridges that don't headspace off the case mouth (understandably it will cause issue on those that do). With Lee dies that both seat and crimp, you can remove the seater stem and screw the die body in until you get the amount of crimp you're looking for, then put a suitably loaded round in, and set the seater until it touches the loaded round. Then add about 1/4 turn. With the recoil potential of 45-70 a stout crimp is suggested.

 

[jethunter]

1.what exactly does "gas check" mean when referring to bullets?
2.is it the seating die that crimps at the end of the stroke?
3.how far does the bullet need to be seated (work to OAL specs?)
4.what role does the cannelure play, and how does it relate to crimping/location TO crimp? (or does it)

1. gas checks are a copper cap that' fits on the base of a cast bullet. The bullet needs to accept gas checks. Your bullets from BSS are likely plain base and should be loaded as is.
2.
3. The bullet needs to be seated so that it functions properly in your rifle, COAL is a reference but is specific for individual bullets. ie, a RN bullet will have a different COAL than a WFN bullet.
4. Generally speaking, the cannelure or crimp groove is where you need to crimp the case into. If the bullets are designed for a lever gun, the crimp groove should be positioned to allow proper functioning in a lever gun.

Before you load a bunch of cases, make a dummy round with a bullet seated to test for function and chambering. Test feeding from magazine and chambering. If it works then you can go ahead and load some with powder bullet and primer for range testing.

 

[.22LRGUY]

Thanks guys-allot to chew on. I think I may pick-up a factory crimp die. I don't mind the idea of that being a separate step, in fact, I might prefer it.

I'll do some more reading, and re-read these posts a few times. I'll check-in/update when I'm able to ask some (hopefully) more informed questions.

I appreciate your generosity guys, it's nice to read detailed answers and I know it takes time. Thank you!!!

 

[leveractionjunkie]

Thanks guys-allot to chew on. I think I may pick-up a factory crimp die. I don't mind the idea of that being a separate step, in fact, I might prefer it.

That’s what I’ve always done. I find it works great and, for me at least, easier for switching between multiple bullet styles. I just find the die set up much quicker.

 

[.22LRGUY]

That’s what I’ve always done. I find it works great and, for me at least, easier for switching between multiple bullet styles. I just find the die set up much quicker.

Thanks leveraction-my local gun shop found me one, it should be in by the end of the week.

btw, this is the gun my reloads will be feeding. My wallet will appreciate me getting a grip on this process. lol

 

[brybenn]

When using cast bullets flare the case mouth just a smidge more so that it doesnt scrap the bullet. With mild loads brass will last a long time.
Trail boss powder and cast bullets will make for cheap plinking. The 4570 like the 458wm are a handloaders dream.
For over all length in a lever gun is to make sure it will cycle thru the action port. I have a double rifle so overall length hasnt ever really been a concern for me
Buy in bulk the 4570 is addictive

 

[jethunter]

That’s what I’ve always done. I find it works great and, for me at least, easier for switching between multiple bullet styles. I just find the die set up much quicker.

Cast bullets need to be oversize to seal the bore. Lee FC die can size down cast bullets more than is good for them.

 

[CzyHorse]

Hodgdon Annual load Data

With my 1895GBL I use the Hodgdon Annual 'Lever Action' load data up to about 32,000CUP/35,000psi, that's my shoulders limit. That's the same limit as Garrett Cartridges places on their 45-70Gov loads.

My 1895GBL likes the 350gn Hornady#4503 FP, Sectional Density 0.238.
A Max compressed charge @59gn of H4895 is 32,900CUP.
In my load ladder test, Load #10, my max, was 58.4gn H4895.

Load #3 was 54.2gn of H4895

Load #9 was 57.8gn H4895

I have 10 of each ready for additional testing but have not had the range to my self to screw around with chrono.

H4895 can also be used for reduced loads but I have positional accuracy issues every time I tried it.

The Jacketed bullet selection for the 45-70gov has thinned out a lot the last couple of months. All my regular outlets are out of the Hornady #4503.
The 300gn Campro makes a fun gong ringer.
Jethunter has a good selection of Hard Cast lead.