Loading down to .22 LR ballistics?

Wondering if anyone has any favorite pet loads (or links) to loading down centerfire cartidges for smaller game for survival/emergency type purposes where head shots aren't always possible? It might be harder with the larger cartridges but I'm sure most of the various .22 centerfires could be easily enough loaded down to .22 LR specs. .22 Hornet, .222, .223, etc ...
 
For medium cartridges like .270, .308, .30-06 etc, IMR sr4759 works well. A light charge in my .270 w/100gr Speer plinker chrony between 1500-1700fps. Very quiet & accurate in my rifle. Kinda like a .22Mag.
 
It's been done for 100yrs or so with cast bullets - and especially with the smaller .22 centrefires nowhere near ten times the price. Take a look at Lyman's reloading manual, the cast bullet section. If you really want to know what has been done look up the Cast Bullet Association websight.
 
prosper said:
Interesting... duplicating 22lr performance at 10x the price?

I know. That's why I stated for emergency/survival purposes and it'd be carrying around a handful and not using them very much anyway. And WMR and HMR are about on average 5x the price and lot's of people use them. For hunting small game just using a rimfire is by far the best idea. It's kind of hard to carry 2 guns around at once and they won't let you use a .22 handgun for hunting. Not only that I don't think most provinces even legally allow you to use centerfires on small game animals like grouse. A combo gun is a possibility I suppose and Savage and Baikal make them but I'm not sure of the accuracy/feasibility.
 
prosper said:
Interesting... duplicating 22lr performance at 10x the price?

Blue dot loads in a 223 give Hornet performance at 22 wmr price. Big consideration when blasting gophers around acreage country is the noise which blue dot greatly reduces, also barrels don't heat up as quickly- a big plus when the gophers emulate commie hordes. Then you still have the 223 with full house loads for everything else. Versatile.
 
Trevor2Toes said:
Wondering if anyone has any favorite pet loads (or links) to loading down centerfire cartidges for smaller game for survival/emergency type purposes where head shots aren't always possible? It might be harder with the larger cartridges but I'm sure most of the various .22 centerfires could be easily enough loaded down to .22 LR specs. .22 Hornet, .222, .223, etc ...
I'm not sure why you would load down for survival/emergency type purposes. I'd rather eat a big critter than a little critter if survival is the name of the game and I don't have a lot of ammo for use getting food. So I'd rather wait for a deer than shoot a chipmunk, for example. And if I wasn't limited in ammunition, then I won't be worried if I try the chipmunk head shot...

Having said that, there's lots of good reasons for downloading. You can load down jacketed bullets with reduced loads of Red Dot and similar powders, you can load commercially cast lead bullets, and you can extend your hobby and do your own casting and use those. Cast bullets can range from hastily poured bullets using a less than ideal mould (no pun intended) for "shooters", to well chosen and carefully crafted hunting loads that will do as well or nearly as well as jacketed bullets.

On the whole, bigger bore rifles are easier to get great results out of than the smaller bores, when speaking of cast bullets.

The Cast Bullet Association has already been mentioned in a previous post. That is good advice indeed; I have been casting bullets for most of my hunting rifles for years, and some of my rifles see nothing but cast bullets. The CBA has lots of advice and knowledge to adress just about any problem or question you might have. You might also search the Internet for articles written by C. Ed Harris - he has written extensively on cast bullet loading and reduced loads in hunting/military surplus rifles.

prosper said:
Interesting... duplicating 22lr performance at 10x the price?
Yep, and a pretty smart idea for a lot of people. The original poster might have correctly surmised that he is unlikely to have both a centerfire rifle in one hand and a 22 LR in the other should he suddenly find himself in a survival/meat gathering scenario.

Of course, there's lots of other good reasons:
  • Some people like to shoot their hunting rifles more often than when they get a shot during hunting season or during trips to the range. They don't see the sense of their favorite rifles gathering dust most of the year. Reduced loads are a lot easier on the barrel, the pocket book, and the shoulder.
  • The more familiar you are with your hunting rifle, the better you're likely to be with it. Many cannot afford or choose not to spend the money to practice shooting thousands of X-bullets, Accubonds, Swifts, etc through their hunting rifles. Downloads are much, much cheaper.
  • Reduced loads are a better way to get new shooters like kids, wives, friends, etc into shooting, instead of handing them a rifle loaded with rhino rollers and telling them to go for it.
 
I used to think that way. Bought a pound of blue dot and layed around a bit. Hell, I've launched 22 cal airgun pellets from my Hornet and a Magnum primer.

But really, any advantages are offset by the fact that the loads won't shoot to the same POI. For a long day in the gopher patch, it's just so much more sensible and economical to bring a 22lr than futz with dialling your scoe in for various loads. For survival situations - well, I wouldn't take a .224 bore gun with me in a situation that might become survival anyway. And if I did, economy would be the least of my concerns. Use the more exensive full-bore loads. And speaking of economy - you can't get a primer for the price of a 22lr round.

Bottom line - this is tinkering. It's fun to play around with, but of very limited (if any) practical application.
 
581 said:
I heard of guys using 00 buck pellets in 30 cal centerfires. Is this true?
Yes. That is an old practice actually, not nearly as popular in this day of readily cheap ammunition. It has been done with #1, 0, and 00 buck, and in other calibers such as the popular .303 British. You neck seat, put a dab of lube on them, and then load with something like 3.0 grains of Bullseye, WW231, etc. To ensure uniform velocities, most guys raise the rifle just before firing to position the powder back by the primer. The first time you try such loads, you will probably be quite surprised with their accuracy. Very cheap, and a fun load for practice with your hunting rifle. You can also try and improve your results by using an 0 or 00 buckshot, placing it in a gas check, and then running it through a sizing die, followed by the same kind of powder charge.

Fun little loads, and it is often a lot less aggravation to simply buy a bag of Hornady buckshot than start the lead pot up and get the moulds warming...
 
Mr 2 Toes

I have done a large amount of testing reduced loads to arrive at grouse/small game/finishing off game loads in 22k hornet....222 rem...223 rem....243...30/30..308...30/06....these use the same jacketed bullets as full house loads...but are from 1200 fps to 2000 fps.....nearly all shoot to point of aim to 50 yards and some to 75 yds....and group under one inch in my rifles...

If you have one of the above calibers and require load data please advise which one you want.....


hs45/70..........your mileage may vary
 
hs4570 said:
I have done a large amount of testing reduced loads to arrive at grouse/small game/finishing off game loads in 22k hornet....222 rem...223 rem....243...30/30..308...30/06....these use the same jacketed bullets as full house loads...but are from 1200 fps to 2000 fps.....nearly all shoot to point of aim to 50 yards and some to 75 yds....and group under one inch in my rifles...

If you have one of the above calibers and require load data please advise which one you want.....


hs45/70..........your mileage may vary

Thanks! :) Probably a .223 or 30-06 mostly. I have all the above calibers except 22k hornet and 222 rem. Also got a 22-250, 6.5 x 55mm, .270 Win, 303 Brit, 7.62X54R, 8x57mm and .338 Win.
Just found this... :)
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59097
 
.223......30/06 reduced loads

.223 Rem. sighted in for 55 gr Hornady fb spz. @3200 fps.
******************************************

3.5 grains Bullseye...45 gr Hornady Hornet (.224)...no readings..
5 shots / 50 yds/ 0.60 inch group.... 1.40 inch low aim point

3.5 grains Bullseye...50 gr Rem fb softpoint 1245..1278..1312..1342..1338 fps
5 shots /50 yds/ 0.65 inch group....1.10 inch low of aimpoint

3.5 gr Bullseye..55 gr Hornady fb spz..1131...1106 fps (2 readings only)
5 shots / 50yds/ 0.55 inch group... 2.0 inch low/aimpoint

3.5 gr. Bullseye..Ukn. 60 gr spz....1054...1036.fps.(2 readings only)
3 shots /50 yds/ 0.62 in. group.

...................55 rem FMJacket..........Imr4198.

11.0 gr Imr4198.....1880 fps/3 shot avg./ 75 yards @ 0.780 in. grp....

13.0 gr Imr4198......2180 fps/3 shot avg./75 yds @0.50 in. group
shoots to aim pt. at 75 yds.
***************************************************
........30-06.........sighted in for 150 gr Hornady at 2900 fps

21.0 grains Imr4227...110 gr. Speer...1950 fps 3 shots/75 yards/ 0.43 inch group.....shoots 1.0 inch low/aim pt.

22.0 grains Imr4227...150 Speer fbase..1800 fps 3 shots/75 yd/ 0.80 in. group
23.0 grains.........3 shots/75 yds/ 0.60 inch group ..1870 fps
24.0 grains..........3 shots/75 yds/ 0.40 inch group...1945 fps
all 3 shoot 1.0-1.25 inch hi of aim point..

Remington 180 gr spzFbase...25.0 gr Imr4227..3 shots/75 yd/1840 fps/ 0.63 inch group.......shoots to point of aim..


hs45/70............your mileage may vary
 
Rick said:
Yes. That is an old practice actually, not nearly as popular in this day of readily cheap ammunition. It has been done with #1, 0, and 00 buck, and in other calibers such as the popular .303 British. You neck seat, put a dab of lube on them, and then load with something like 3.0 grains of Bullseye, WW231, etc. To ensure uniform velocities, most guys raise the rifle just before firing to position the powder back by the primer. The first time you try such loads, you will probably be quite surprised with their accuracy. Very cheap, and a fun load for practice with your hunting rifle. You can also try and improve your results by using an 0 or 00 buckshot, placing it in a gas check, and then running it through a sizing die, followed by the same kind of powder charge.

Fun little loads, and it is often a lot less aggravation to simply buy a bag of Hornady buckshot than start the lead pot up and get the moulds warming...

Very interesting, thanks.
 
I loaded 40 grain Barnes Varminator hollow points over a small charge of Alliant Bluedot, did 1450 fps average, in a 223 Remington
 
I have made reduced loads for my daughter in the .308 cal. They work great. the powder is H4895 you can reduce this powder by as much as 60% of the maximum published load that is printed in the Hodgdon Annual Manual. You can also get the info from the Hodgdon websiten under "YOUTH LOADS "
 
Shooting round ball/buckshot in 30 cal and up to.45 useing small amounts of pistol/shotgun powder can give you fairly accurate shooting fun for big game rifles and they are fairly quiet compared to regular loads...
Have found that when top of ball is seated flush with case mouth a dab of alox can be dropped on top and it "puddles" around case mouth and then firms up as it dries and was more accurate than no lube...

#4 buck is .240 ish and I run it through my Lee .224 sizer and once sized works quite well for .22Khornet..222..223 rem with several grains Bullseye..Unique..reddot..2400 type powder....seated flush ..bit of alox.. and singleloaded...it will do about an inch or less at 25 yards.....

If you play with these very reduced plinkers make sure to set aside the cases you use....mark the rim so you can differentiate them and don't use them for regular loads again.....


hs45/70...........your mileage may vary
 
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