Loading for BPC (.45-90)

[Licensed to kill]

Loading for Black powder rifle cartridge is new to me. I hear some things I find unusual (like putting a paper wad over the primer before adding the powder). Want to shoot straight black (no duplex loads) with paper patched bullets. I have an adjustable mould so I can make any weight/length I want. So what process do you BPC shooters go through ?

 

[B_noser]

Others with a lot more BPC experience, and knowledge, than me,are sure to chime in, but I do regularly load for BPC. Have never heard of putting a paper wad between the primer and powder and cannot imagine why that would be advisable. A couple of very basic pointers: There should not be an airspece between the powder and bullet and black powder works best when compressed, so use a drop tube and slightly compress your load. Use a filler as necessary to fill the cartridge case. Some use dacron and others use cream of wheat. I use corn meal. To my understanding, fillers like corn meal and cream of wheat should not be used in a bottle neck cartridge due to potential blockage. On the other hand, for my .577-450 loads, I just dump the powder in, stuff in enough cattail down to hold the powder in place and seat the bullet - sometimes paper patched and sometimes not.
Just musings from someone with a LITTLE knowledge on the subject and who welcomes being corrected when he goes astray.

 

[MTM]

Been loading for 40 years. Never messed with the holy black. Haha Bought a 45/90 and did a ton of reading. Very cool undertaking. Took a while to get everything figured out. Never used the paper over primer but read about it. Lube wad and possibly card wad under bullet depending on what you like. Long drop tube, wad thickness, neck sizing seating depth lots to play with. Lube and bore care during shooting is also important. Pretty cool when you get them under an inch at 100 with open sights.

 

[iron cat]

I have loaded for various BP cartridges over the years from 32/40 to 50/140 3 1/4.
At the moment I am only shooting a .577 Snider.
Paul Mathews has a couple of very good books on shooting black powder cartridge guns.
I wouldn't worry about experimenting with the paper over the primer flash hole just yet until I have read his books.
The biggest thing IMO to consider right now ( after your powder charge consistency of course) is your bullet weight and your case length .
I try and keep my cases as close to the end of the chamber as possible.
I breach seat my bullets but use very little if any crimp when making fixed ammunition.
Cat

 

[ArtyMan]

I've been loading black powder cartridges for a while from 44-40 to 45-120, including some odd balls like 40-70 BN and 44-77.

I agree with the recommendation RE Paul Matthews books. Additionally the "black powder cartridge reloading primer" book by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe (avail on Amazon) can't be beat.

The most common black powder cartridge I load and shoot is the 45-70. I use starline brass, magnum large rifle primers, 63gr FFG Swiss or Schuetzen powder, a .060 veggie wad and a 500gr .459 round nose bullet lubed with SPG. This combination works very well in my 45-70s. I load using a drop tube and powder charges are weighed.

When it comes to 44-40 and 45 Colt, I load powder using a quick volumetric measure and don't bother with a drop tube.

 

[slowfire]

50 years ago when I started to load black in 38-55, I dallied with paper wad over the primer because my mentor (some barrel maker from Winbourne was doing it). I think the Idea was to soften the explosion from the primer .We used a standard rifle primer.I was never able to tell any difference with or with out the wad.
20 years ago I started to load for 45-90 and 45-70 I then used a magnum primer ,poured the powder through a drop tube to a level about .10 inch higher than the base of the bullet.Then compress a veg card wad down with a compression die. I found a compression die was better than just using the bullet to compress. The soft lead bullet you are likely using can be deformed very easily.

 

[DLehto]

50 years ago when I started to load black in 38-55, I dallied with paper wad over the primer because my mentor (some barrel maker from Winbourne was doing it). I think the Idea was to soften the explosion from the primer .We used a standard rifle primer.I was never able to tell any difference with or with out the wad.
20 years ago I started to load for 45-90 and 45-70 I then used a magnum primer ,poured the powder through a drop tube to a level about .10 inch higher than the base of the bullet.Then compress a veg card wad down with a compression die. I found a compression die was better than just using the bullet to compress. The soft lead bullet you are likely using can be deformed very easily.

i loaded 38/55 with 3fffg black with lyman 335 gr cast bullet 20-1 lead to tin browning 1885 traditional hunter , changed the butt stock to one wirg out the cresent pad ,,, very good success for accurasy 30 thou vegy wad under the bullet

 

[gunlaker]

A while ago there was that trend of putting a wad between the primer and powder. There are few who can honestly claim to have an improvement that is statistically significant. It's literally the last thing you need to worry about.

Are you patching to bore or groove diameter? I have no experience patching to groove, but quite a lot of experience patching to bore diameter.

First thing to think about is the chamber. Does your rifle have any sort of long freebore? y long I mean longer than 0.050". If so then consider patching to bore, or shooting grease grooved bullets. If not then bore diameter can work well for you. There are two main approaches. Lube cookie ( a thin wad, lube disc, and another thin wad ), or just an LDPE wad. Nearly any rifle will make decent groups with a lube cookie and you'll minimize risk of gas cutting and the leading that goes with it. But in terms of absolute accuracy, particularly at long range, you can make a single LDPE wad shoot a little better and with more consistent velocities.

The type of powder you use can make a big difference. Shooting bore diameter PP bullets is a fine balance between the right pressure curve to bump up the bullet, and too much pressure too quickly resulting in gas cutting. When you find the balance the results are good. Sometimes I use Swiss 1.5, Swiss Fg, or OE 1.5. I have loads that work well with one powder, but might shoot poorly if I change powder. They can be finicky. More so than grease grooved bullets.

For a number of years I was really into bore diameter PP bullets and ended up having a few different rifles built with Dan Theodore PP chambers. They shoot well, but I found that my long range scores were better with grease grooved bullets. PP bullets are still very interesting to me though, as all of the original American long range matches were shot that way so it's the most correct way to do it.

Oh one more thing. Plan to wipe between shots. For shooting PP bullets you want the bore absolutely clean and dry between shots for top accuracy. The best system I've used so far are Buffalo Arms bore wipers. I use two of them between shots, pushed by a dry patch. The bore comes out perfect between shots.

If you are looking for hunting accuracy, you can likely get by with a little undersized patched bullet, a lube cookie, and a blow tube.

Chris.

 

[DLehto]

thx chris , i am from kamloops , looking to try paper patching , in my shiloh 45-70 so looking for a mold, thx for your info

 

[gunlaker]

Is it a Bryant made Shiloh? ( B in the serial number )? If so it should work pretty well with bore diameter PP bullets.

Oh, one more thing, a really nice thing to get is a 0.450" push through sizer. I have a custom Lee one that I use to push the bullets through before putting them into the case. Before doing this I'd occasionally get a bullet that was hard to chamber. The push through die fixed it.

Do you shoot at Heffley Creek by the way? I will probably be headed up there later this week.

Chris.

 

[Alonzo]

Years ago I loaded 45 2 4/10" (45-90) in an early Shiloh Sharps sporting rifle. Tried paper patched bullets with so-so results.
Ended up using a cast Lyman 457193 (405/420 grain flat point) sized to 0.459, lubed with Esso Galena Hot Box Gear Lubricant (came in sticks). Tossed in 80 grains of G.O. FG using a 24 and 36 inch drop tube. Started with FFg, with fairly good results, though settled on Fg.
After that the gun took no less than third place in every BP Cartridge rifle match (16 over the BP competition season) it shot in. Also took a couple deer at hunting season. Sold it and went back to teh old Trapdoor Springfield 45-70 for award winning competition.