loading for the 303 and the use of premium bullets

[todbartell]

Tod, while the 7mm-140 TSX is a great deer bullet, it is so over kill on a coyote you have no idea if the bullet expanded or not. The damage you witnessed was a product of velocity rather than bullet performance.

well, I disagree.

Ive shot a coyote and a wolf with a Sierra Matchking 6.5mm 107 gr. @ 2900 fps, and in both instances the bullet failed to expand, and the animals made it 300/500 yards before expiring.

The X bullet does in fact expand on thin skinned game, whether you believe it or not.

 

[Boomer]

OK Tod -

I saw the pic of the TSX opened up after penetrating 2" of ballistic gel from the Barnes website....I'm convinced that the TSX opens up very quickly.

Now we can debate if that is good performance from a big game bullet. Let's assume that the a normal weight for caliber TSX bullet has enough momentum to exit the game animal when the bullet expands immediately. When we consider game animals which carry heavy layers of fat - bears, seals, or walrus etc - it means the TSX is expanded before it penetrates the near side skeletal structure. The older X's often lost their wings, and I would think that this is more likely with a bullet that has expanded on the first 2" of penetration on a large animal. The shank will continue to penetrate through the animal, but both the temporary and permanent wound channels through the vitals will be smaller as a result. This is why I have come to the conclusion that a bonded lead core - solid shank soft point is superior to an X. From my testing it appears that the bonded core bullets produce greater expansion and retains more weight. X's often penetrate through and through - which we agree is a good thing - but if the wings haven't shed, then they have flattened along the sides of the shank.

 

[todbartell]

you have to stick with bonded core bullets then, if you're set in your mind that the Xs wont work

someone else I know used to be a non believer in the Barnes X, and now its all he shoots. go figure.
​

 

[mylesrom]

If this is the chart published in 1998,it should be mentioned that some bullets listed,have been changed over the years and no longer perform as they did in 1998.The 180gr ballistic tip is a prime example. As well,it does not include bullets such as the accubond,interbond,tsx etc.

I never said the chart was perfect and covered every bullet, if you happen to have a better one, please feel free to post it for everyone.

 

[Lefty Dick]

Well put P-17.
Unless you want to invest in the Woodleigh's, stick to the Hornady offering's and let her rip, they are all the bullet you need for a 303.
Again all the hype of ultra tough, gucchi this gucchi that designed bullets, warping the mind of the neophite.

If your going to break the 3000fps threshold I say yes to considering controlled expansion bullets, but if you don't stand a chance of coming close to 3000fps what's the pre occupation?

 

[Gibbs505]

If this thread is about the .303, then all this discussion about "premium" bullets is misplaced. As far as I know, the only true premium bullet available for the .303 is the Australian Woodleigh Weldcore. (I've got a box of these, and I'm saving them for a special occasion, like hunting with my P-14 ".303 Winchester Magnum".) Personally, I'd love to see something like the Hornady Interbond in .303, preferably weighing 174 grains, but I wouldn't hold your breath. From what I understand, the velocities generated by this cartridge really don't tear bullets apart, so there may not be much of a need for premiums in the .303 British.

As for powders, there are a lot that will work with the 174-180 grain weight. Though I've never used them, I'll bet Reloder 15 and Vihtavuori N540 would be outstanding. The classic WWI-era load that still works today used IMR 3031. Others have had good results with Varget and the 4895s.

Personally, I've found IMR 4320 to be the most consistent with 150 to 180 grain bullets in the .303, and I don't see any reason to change. If you have a 24-inch barrel, you should have no problem getting the standard 2,700 fps velocity with IMR 4320 and a 150 grain bullet. You should also have no problem getting 2,450 with a 174 grain bullet. If you have a strong action like a P-14, you should be able to get a bit higher than this, essentially matching .308 Winchester ballistics, but you don't need to do this to get decent results from the .303. The standard .303 loads described above essentially duplicate the ballistic performance of the .300 Savage, and bullets perform quite well at this velocity level on game, as long as you don't stretch the ranges too far.

Agreed, why try to make a Lee Enfield into something it isn't!!

 

[Wally]

Hmmm, Interesting thread. Well, as far as the .303 is concerned, we don't have much choice as far as bullets go. It seems Hornaday is one of the only companies I've found that makes .303 brit bullets in .312" diameter. Since I'm runnin about .313 I figure maybe I'll order som bullets from steve and some bullets from Hornaday and then go do some accuracy checks.

As far as Factory stuff goes Remington, Winchester and Federal all use .311" bullets for the .303 (just in case anyone was wondering).

wally

 

[Foxer]

We've used 150 grain interlocs on deer several times now out of the 303 - very good performance. I think if you stepped up to either the 174 interlock you'd never have cause to complain with performance even on bigger game as long as you hit 'em.

Regarding todd's claim:

The X bullet does in fact expand on thin skinned game, whether you believe it or not.

He's right. i've shot several small sitka now with 165 grain tripleshocks - there is no doubt by the entry wound that they expanded immediately. Left nice holes thru the animal without doing excessive damage. These are light deer, some weighing as little as 50 lbs. The new x-bullets just don't have an expansion problem.

 

[Eagleye]

I have a Winchester built P14 [1916 manufacture] It has a bright, sharp 5 groove left hand twist barrel. I load several bullets for it, including Steve's Mark 9 bullet at .313" [same as my groove diameter.] The bullets that shoot the very best are: 1. Steve's 200 grain Mark 9 propelled by 48.0 grains of Nobel 47N powder. This gets 2355 in my rifle, and shoots into 1" for three at 100 meters. 2. Sierra's 180 grain spitzer flat base [.311", go figure!!]propelled by 50 grains of W760. This gets 2560 in my rifle and shoots very close to the same groups as the Redgwell 200 grainer. 3. 150 Hornady Interlock spitzer propelled by 47 grains of VV N540 at 2790 fps. This shoots the best of all bullets in my rifle, and will beat 1" every time. The 174 Hornady, the 180 Speer and 180 Cor-Lokt all shoot about the same, right around 1½" at 100, still quite impressive for a 90 year old rifle. Don't try these loads in your Lee-Enfields. They will cause extremely short case life. If you are loading for a P14, please start 3 grains down and work up carefully. I do neck size my brass, but the chamber on this rifle is actually not a badly oversized one, so my brass stands up very well. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[downwindtracker2]

My much new Winchester P-14 (1917) didn't care for the Remington .3105 core-loc after 2300. I use 308 max loads but still run 100 feet slow, even with it's longer 26" barrel.I guess there is a bit of slop with Speer 180s. It's hard for me to truly judge groups size with me shooting iron sights.