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tacfoley

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Mornin', All. tac here in sunny yUK. One or two of you may know that in addition to shooting my socks off here in yUK and over in Oregon, I'm also the president of a small association of like-minded shooters in the Republic of Ireland [RoI] - the Vintage and Classic Rifle Association of Ireland [www.vcrai.com].

We welcome shooters of military arms of all periods and types, even though, the RoI having the rather odd laws it does, based, strangely enough almost 100% on Canadian gun laws, there are less than FIVE shooters in the whole country who are permitted to shoot live-firing black powder small arms.

However, we have recently been joined by a gentleman from near Maastricht in The Netherlands, and he shoots a nice Maastricht-made Beaumont rilfe. So if any of you are interested in just how he gets this long-obsolete cartridge to shoot, here is a link to the site that will show you how he does it -

http://vcrai.com/phpBB/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1661&p=11399#p11399

Thanks for reading.

tac
President - VCRAI
 
I am fairly sure that I had a Beaumont for a short time. If I have my guns correct then I made shells for it by making a steel base and putting a 45-70 shells into the base and fireforming. Obviously annealing the 45-70 shells and firing a reduced load to form. I believe the shells in order in the bottom photo are an original shell, one of my modified shells and finally a 45-70. Been quite a while and the memory grows foggy.

cheers mooncoon

Beaumontbase.jpg


Beaumontbrass.jpg
 
Sigh, what it must be like to be unsure as to whether or not you had a gun...........I remember vividly every gun that I have ever owned in my life.

tac

PS - please give our best to Port Alice, and, if you get that far, to Quatsino, too.
 
mooncoon said:
I am fairly sure that I had a Beaumont for a short time. If I have my guns correct then I made shells for it by making a steel base and putting a 45-70 shells into the base and fireforming. Obviously annealing the 45-70 shells and firing a reduced load to form. I believe the shells in order in the bottom photo are an original shell, one of my modified shells and finally a 45-70. Been quite a while and the memory grows foggy.

cheers mooncoon

Beaumontbase.jpg


Beaumontbrass.jpg
Click to expand...

ive beenwanting to do the same thing with the MH but i have no lathe one day
 
What casing would you fireform with the steel base? The MH is big; would a .45-70 expand without failing?

mooncoon - thanks for the idea. I'll try this with my Beaumont. Easier to make those bases than to find .50-90s.
 
tiriaq said:
What casing would you fireform with the steel base? The MH is big; would a .45-70 expand without failing?

mooncoon - thanks for the idea. I'll try this with my Beaumont. Easier to make those bases than to find .50-90s.
Click to expand...

.300 win mag(any belted magnum will work) it will work ive seen pic's of a guy doing this in .577 snider .45-70 is too short .45-90 is long enough but not cheap

but trying to get someone to make 100 of these sleeves is hard
 
Making 100 of those sleeves on a manual lathe would be a misery. Crank 'em out like sausages with a screw machine or cnc. If anyone still uses screw machines.

It would be best to start with some tubing, rather than barstock. A lot less steel to remove.
I'll have to give this a try for Beaumont and Snider.

Making these sleeves could be a good little moneymaker for a small cnc shop with some machine time available.
 
tacfoley said:
Mornin', All. tac here in sunny yUK. One or two of you may know that in addition to shooting my socks off here in yUK and over in Oregon, I'm also the president of a small association of like-minded shooters in the Republic of Ireland [RoI] - the Vintage and Classic Rifle Association of Ireland [www.vcrai.com].

We welcome shooters of military arms of all periods and types, even though, the RoI having the rather odd laws it does, based, strangely enough almost 100% on Canadian gun laws, there are less than FIVE shooters in the whole country who are permitted to shoot live-firing black powder small arms.

However, we have recently been joined by a gentleman from near Maastricht in The Netherlands, and he shoots a nice Maastricht-made Beaumont rilfe. So if any of you are interested in just how he gets this long-obsolete cartridge to shoot, here is a link to the site that will show you how he does it -

http://vcrai.com/phpBB/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1661&p=11399#p11399

Thanks for reading.

tac
President - VCRAI
Click to expand...

well its nice to know you can stll own something in eire
 
tiriaq said:
Making 100 of those sleeves on a manual lathe would be a misery. Crank 'em out like sausages with a screw machine or cnc. If anyone still uses screw machines.

It would be best to start with some tubing, rather than barstock. A lot less steel to remove.
I'll have to give this a try for Beaumont and Snider.

Making these sleeves could be a good little moneymaker for a small cnc shop with some machine time available.
Click to expand...

tubing is what i had in mind 3/4" .120 wall 4130 i planned it to be 3/4" long (this would get around 15 or 16 out of a foot of tubing)
 
tiriaq said:
What casing would you fireform with the steel base? The MH is big; would a .45-70 expand without failing?

mooncoon - thanks for the idea. I'll try this with my Beaumont. Easier to make those bases than to find .50-90s.
Click to expand...

Bullet Barn has .50-110 Winchester Starline Brass; I don't know about compatibility to 50-90 Sharps, only offering the observation if it helps out here :) 20 for 35$
 
Doubletap can get you Starline 50-90 brass. Cut it to 2.100", make a neck with a 45 Colt sizer, and you're good to go. The brass is not cheap - about $2 a pop, but this is not a gun you'll shoot a lot, and with the low pressures the brass will last almost forever.

Magtech 32 ga brass might work too - Rim: 0.653"; Body: 0.571"; and Length: 2.500"
 
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H Wally said:
Just because I'm slow off the mark - the steel collar around the rim and base of the center cartridge is to make up for the difference in base and rim diameter between the beaumont casing and the 45-70 parent cartridge?
Click to expand...

yep its a sttel sleeve that the .45-70 go's into then is fire formed (a good annealing before hand helps too)
 
Andy said:
Doubletap can get you Starline 50-90 brass. Cut it to 2.000", make a neck with a 45 Colt sizer, and you're good to go. The brass is not cheap - about $2 a pop, but this is not a gun you'll shoot a lot, and with the low pressures the brass will last almost forever.

Magtech 32 ga brass might work too - Rim: 0.653"; Body: 0.571"; and Length: 2.500"
Click to expand...

i would no trust that balloon head stuff from what i hear the last few shipments have had case out of the box with splits at the head
 
Just remembered that I have chambering reamers in .338 and .458 Mag. and .45-70. Using these would make it very easy to do the interior machining in the sleeves.
 
H Wally said:
Just because I'm slow off the mark - the steel collar around the rim and base of the center cartridge is to make up for the difference in base and rim diameter between the beaumont casing and the 45-70 parent cartridge?
Click to expand...

That is correct. I also think that I turned the rim of the 45-70 shell to about 30 thou from 65 thou in order to strengthen the steel rim which actually does the pulling. I may have reduced the diameter of the rim a bit also for the same purpose. I probably have one of the shells around somewhere but it has been at least 8 - 10 years since I did it.
Re the martini shells, I have made chamber liners but the short coming is that the chamber has a long thin neck area and as you approach normal pressures I got a pressure ring at the mouth of the 45-70 shell (which is shorter than the martini shell. One solution would be to shorten the 45-70 shells so that they are no longer than the shoulder of the insert. That leaves the problem of bullet jump in order to reach the rifling

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
That is correct. I also think that I turned the rim of the 45-70 shell to about 30 thou from 65 thou in order to strengthen the steel rim which actually does the pulling. I may have reduced the diameter of the rim a bit also for the same purpose. I probably have one of the shells around somewhere but it has been at least 8 - 10 years since I did it.
Re the martini shells, I have made chamber liners but the short coming is that the chamber has a long thin neck area and as you approach normal pressures I got a pressure ring at the mouth of the 45-70 shell (which is shorter than the martini shell. One solution would be to shorten the 45-70 shells so that they are no longer than the shoulder of the insert. That leaves the problem of bullet jump in order to reach the rifling

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

im not talking about adapters or inserts but the same thing you did only with longer cases in sleeves i now have a .45 colt/.410 shotshell adapter for the MH
 
Take Starline 50-90 brass
- trim to 2.100"
- anneal
- size down in an 8mm Lebel F/L die
- neck with 45 Colt sizer
- trim to 2.040"

I use 32.0 grs of H4198 and a 310gr cast bullet sized to 0.454" (groove size) to an OAL of 2.490". Gives me 1530 fps - a nice mild Springfield Trapdoor load at about 18K psi. With Trail Boss, I'd start at 12 grs and work up to about 1250 fps.

The brass is now fireformed to the chamber, and not surprisingly for these old girls, the chamber is very "generous" - almost no neck. Next time I will cut the case longer to end up at 2.100" +/- to get a bit more neck to size.

L to R - 11x52R Beaumont, 50-90 Sharps


11x52_Beaumont_and_50_90_Sharps.jpg
 
antiqueguy said:
well its nice to know you can stll own something in eire
Click to expand...

Yup - they can even have some handguns, but with restriction to five rounds in the magazine/cylinder. The 'restricted' rifles are the same as you guys have, more or less - they can have a .303British calibre, but an 8mm Mauser is 'restricted'. No black powder except for the very few re-enactors and reloading only for those fortunate enough to have taken part in the Creedmore comp last year - a total of around 40 shooters out of a shooting population of 300,000. Some can have semiauto centre-fires like a Garand -there are at least three in the whole of Ireland] or G3 [there is one, AFAIK he still has it]. No bullpups of any kind or guns that 'look tactical' in the eyes of the Garda, amny of whom would not know a rifle from a hoe if it hit them in the eye.

I am the 'remote' president, selected for my knowledge rather than my closeness to the action there. I have also dealt professionally with An Garda Siochána, and can write in 'cop-speak' to their department of justice.

tac
 
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