Loading Over Max

sealhunter

sealhunter

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How many of you guys have developed a load over max and shoot it consistently?

I have been off finding load data here there and everywhere, and a few recipes I saw, that were shot out of stock rifles, were up to 6 grains over maximum...

We all know the story of the dangers and the cost/benefit analysis,...but who is loading a hot load to get another 100 fps or 50 fps as the case may be...

No judging, just curious about it and the rifles and cartridges you're doing it with..
 
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Not a chance - My face is behind that load. I like my face....

That being said, some published max loads are low are due to older firearms being able to tolerate only low pressures. Take the 6.5x55. In modern rifles, the load and rifle can handle higher pressures than published.

Short answer - Don't do it... Longer answer - Depends, but be bloody careful.
 
with the component variations (lot of powder, hardness of bullet etc), and dimensional variations, being over book max is meaningless in terms of being over pressure

a chronographed velocity that is substantially above factory velocity is an indication of excessive pressure, as are signs of brass flow.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Isn't the game about accuracy and not velocity??

That being said my best loads are usually something in the middle of the road from published data.
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Mine as well, but I have one rifle that likes a load 1.2gns over max in the book. Smallest group is 5/8" and no pressure signs that I can notice.
 
rgv said:
with the component variations (lot of powder, hardness of bullet etc), and dimensional variations, being over book max is meaningless in terms of being over pressure

a chronographed velocity that is substantially above factory velocity is an indication of excessive pressure, as are signs of brass flow.
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Sums it up perfectly IMO. Look at some older (20 years or more) manuals compared to some recent ones and the old one usually have higher max loads. I look at all the data I can find and make a judgement as to where to start, then chrono and look for that plateau when more powder doesn't mean more velocity. I then play around with increments in powder weight and seating depth to get the ideal load for that rifle. Most of the time this is right around or a bit over the max in some books.
 
Whether you are above the max load in one manual, means virtually nothing.Because of variances in barrels,chambers, and components, you can be above the maximum in one manual,and below the maximum in another manual.
 
I have 6 manuals from different companys and what is max load in one may not be max in anouther. Max for a (308 win)168gr using Varget in hornady book is 44Gr , Speer Book is 46Gr
Or how about a 168gr using IMR 4895? Hornady book max is 43.3 , Speer Book Max is 44 and Hodgdon is 45.4
 
For me, loading for 40 years now, it's been all over the map. Every firearm is a rule unto it's self. And it can go either way.

Some digest loads well over book max without drama, and shoot their best pushed a bit.

Have been caught out by a couple of others that at first blew primers with mild starting loads. Turned out to be bore constriction from extreme fouling buildup.

So you never know starting out.

Published maximums have been reduced in recent years with the more accurate pressure testing equipment available. Your gun will nonetheless likely differ from the test mule.

Learning to read pressure signs (especially case head expansion) would seem a good idea if planning on leaving published data behind for uncharted ballistic territory. The risks are real.
 
Even the same loading manual can be confusing.

8th Edition of the Hornady handbook lists different loads for the .44 magnum using a 300 grain bullet and H110 powder.

Max load for a rifle is 18.4 grains.
Max load for a pistol is 20.1 grains.

Meanwhile Hodgdon lists 19 grains for both rifle and pistol.

Go figure. :confused:
 
I use a chronograph and pressure trace when venturing into the max load area. Personally I don't trust visual observation of case condition for excessive pressure, IMHO it's too subjective, but then maybe I'm not looking at the tight things.
 
Target shooters are often loading for a specific velocity. This is because barrels have sweet spots that are velocity dependent. If you can reach that velocity with normal loads then they are the ones that likely will shoot the best. If they are just beyond normal maximum loads, then some will chase them. One of my best target loads in 6BR is 2.3 grains above Sierra's max load of 32.1 grains, and 320 fps faster. No indication at all of any excessive pressure. You have to work up in small increments and watch for all the pressure signs.
 
Newer reloaders (not saying you fit into that category sealhunter) tend to think anything over the published load will automatically turn your gun into a cluster bomb, but that's simply not so. What's more, rifle loads are much more forgiving, more so with slower powders and larger cases. Pistol loads are trickier, cartridges like 9mm and .40S&W can spike in pressure considerably with a vary small variation in powder charge.

That said, I would never have had so much fun with my 10mm pistols and revolvers if I'd sticked to published maximums. Most books today are written by lawyers.

But all in all, rgv and Cummins4x4 said all that needs to be said. I'm surprised H4831 hasn't chimed in yet, I always love his responses to threads like these.
 
Did it few times with my A-bolt in 300 win mag as it says 78gr is max in H4831 for 168gr bullets and I went as far as 80.3 and flat primers and lots of other shiet were visible but not much gain in accuracy and some u-tube help made me little bit chicken - Biggs
 
some manuals have pretty conservative data.

When I used to shoot a 338 WM....my load was 4 grains over max according to Hornady and the velocity was about average for what a 225 gr. bullet should be moving at.

The rifle is always one huge variable.
 
Another example of a cartridge that can be hot loaded is the 280 Remington. Look at the difference in allowable pressures between the 280 and 270 and go figure. The 280 was engineered originally for use in a semi-auto and can safely be loaded to higher than SAAMI pressures when the cartridge is used in modern bolt actions.
 
HOWDY; Once knew a guy that overloaded 357 Mag in a TC contender , cause it was more accurate . It worked for awhile, KA=Boom !split the barrel. He never came back to the range.
 
when dealing with rifles i work up in half grain increments five rounds each load.
pay attention to your cases and your rifle, they will tell you when something is not right.
flattened or even smeared primers, sticky bolt lift or unusually heavy recoil and muzzle blast.
shoot for group with each load, take it slow so as to not over heat the barrel or develop shooter fatigue.
once you see any of these signs back off two grains leaving a margin for error once you've established your load.
loading low can be just as bad with hang-fires, sudden unexplained spikes in pressure or no seal at the neck.
 
I don't own any manuals. I get a baseline from powder manufacturers websites and work up a load until I find one that seems to work.
 
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