Loading the 577

M

morgangrinder

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So getting a wee bit of ammo at under 11 bucks a round impossible, so back into loading for it. Going to do 420 grain soft lead in a miii steel barrel. Got a ton of hs6 I want to use up. Thinking around 18 to 20 grains. Thoughts

Ps no no holy black
 
Well I have no info to share as I am a newb to loading the 577 but let us know how the HS6 works out I am also sitting on a bunch and would be happy to use some up
 
I am assuming hs6 is a smokeless powder. If so you will have to put a wad of dryer lint or something similar on top of the powder to keep the powder on top of the primer. I would think that you would be far wiser to use black powder and experiment with different granulation sizes. I would not consider a Snider to be a particularly strong action and you might find that the breach will fail before your shells show any indication of high pressure

cheers mooncoon
 
The Snider CAN be safely loaded with smokeless powder but it requires exceptional care and there is a very short list of suitable powders. HS6 is NOT one of them in my opinion and experience. You need to use very small amounts of fast pistol/shotgun powders such as Unique or faster, and the load development needs to be done with a Chronograph. I have done this and posted about it here on CGN and elsewhere. You will not see MV's faster than about 1100 fps.
 
Ah, I see - 'miii' is actually 'MkIII'. Right. Putting the images in the first post would have been useful, to say the least.

@OP - Listen to Andy, is my advice. He and Mooncoon speak a world of sense. Shame to destroy such a lovely old piece.

tac
 
I tried to develop a smokeless .577" Snider load with various powders. By the point where I was not getting hang fires I was getting concerned about pressure.
I use straight black powder with good results.
The only thing that gets stronger with age is cheese and the Snider is the oldest CF ctg rifle you are going to find.
 
Old boy i met at gun show lived on sniders with 16 gs of blue dot and the bullet I'm using. I thought the idea was to get the sudden snap to a simulate black which also explodes rather ghan burn. You dont worry about pressure spikes using plastic hulls z.
 
morgangrinder said:
Old boy i met at gun show lived on sniders with 16 gs of blue dot and the bullet I'm using. I thought the idea was to get the sudden snap to a simulate black which also explodes rather ghan burn. You dont worry about pressure spikes using plastic hulls z.
Click to expand...

I think there is a difference between chamber pressure and velocity; many years ago, I was trying to find the best load for a wildcat that I had made and was using a chronograph for velocity. My decision on max pressure was based on the primer shape and when it formed a fin around the firing pin. In that particular cartridge, the maximum velocity when using a fast powder was not as high as when using a slower powder. Point being that if you base your load on chronographed velocity and using a fast powder, you may reach maximum pressure before you reach the targeted velocity. Further, maximum pressure in a weak action could be reached before signs of it showed up by things like primer deformation.
I think many people think in terms of a barrel failing under high pressure; I think it is often the action which will fail before the barrel does

I also question the statement that black powder detonates (explodes in your terms). In the course of experimenting with breach seated bullets and using a compressable wad between compressed black powder and the seated bullet, I had unusual case failures. The two or three shots I fired (2 different bottleneck cartridges) all separated about 1/2 way up the cartridge rather than where the web joins the walls of the shell. I can only explain that by saying that the compacted front half of the powder gripped the case and dragged it forward down the barrel. I believe that with a bullet seated on top of the powder, inertia of the bullet allows the front half of the charge to start burning and crumbling rather than acting like a solid projectile for a brief moment

cheers mooncoon
 
I say explode as opposed to burn of smokeless given we would never leave an air space with bp or subs and when we try to get a smokeless to act bp we use small amounts of very fast and usually a mag primer to change its properties from progressive to aggressive
 
as long as you use a pinch of dryer lint (or similar media) to hold the powder against the primer, standard primers work just fine. I have also used pistol primers to compensate for guns with weak hammers. I suspect the reason for fast powders has more to do with the risk of excessive pressures as a result of a partial case of slower powders. That is a guess on my part. I seem to recall occasional reports of very high pressure spikes associated with partial loads of slow powders in modern cartridges.

cheers mooncoon
 
Andy said:
.....You will not see MV's faster than about 1100 fps.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the intent was to be more along the line of "you DO NOT want to see...." Either that or Andy is attempting his Jedi mind influence to instill this 1100fps max speed as some sort of mind control directive.

When I look at the loads used in cowboy action long distance rifle loads that shoot slow and with lower pressures I see a lot of the larger casing volume options using H4895 and H4198. And if there is one thing a 577 Snider has it is lots of casing volume. So that might be a direction to examine.

The use of things like 4227 and the other fast handgun and shotgun powders seems to fade out with the smaller casing volumes like my own .38-55 loading and the .40-65. 45-70 and larger uses Varget, H322, H4198 and H4895 from the Hodgdon lineup. I'm listing these in particular because I'm referencing from the Hodgdon Cowboy Action reloading data. Certainly other equivalent powders could be used.

Andy and Mooncoon, I'd welcome your thoughts on this direction?
 
mooncoon said:
I think there is a difference between chamber pressure and velocity;.....
Click to expand...


I'd agree with that strongly! ! ! ! A perfect example is using Trailboss for rifle loads. If we look at the tables for rifle loads where Trailboss in mentioned quite often TB produces the highest peak pressure while delivering one of the lowest muzzle velocities. It's a fantastic powder for the handgun loads it was intended for. But when extended out into larger case volumes it pays to look at the load data numbers. In particular the peak pressure. It's frequently the WORST possible choice.
 
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