Loading with out a Manual??

"...that is in most every manual..." And on most component maker's sites. It's a refection of our society when people want everything handed to them. Mind you, asking what powders work well isn't a bad thing. No point asking what load to use though.
 
I have to agree to an extent Fassteel. I've probably got 7 reloading manuals in the basement, but if I'm messing with a new caliber, it's nice to know what's worked well for other people vs. what worked, but was nothing to write home about. Raw data is necessary in out hobby, but a little experience and question asking goes a long way too.
 
what bothers me is people assuming that nobody looks in a manual before posting here.

I am sick of hearing about manuals, blah blah blah.

I own 5 manuals and for loading the .204 they are useless.

The lee book doesn't have any loads for it at all.

That's why I ask on here.

I load for 9mm as well and have asked very little about it because most of that info is in manuals.

maka
 
I don't get why guys bother asking what other people's pet loads are.
For one, do you trust your life to advice by someone who may or may not be competent?
Secondly, every rifle is different, so what works for buddy could just as well give you shotgun groups.
Thirdly, if you are trying to cut corners by skipping load developement you should pick up knitting instead.
The whole point of reloading is to safely build a custom load tuned to your rifle and shooting needs, and so you can shoot twice as much.:D
 
Too often people are just too lazy to do any research on their own. Sure they can surf the net for everything else but continue to come here to query on the most basic of reloading instead of either consulting a manual in hard copy or online. Not all data on the web is reliable however the info posted by the major manufacturers is reliable and common sense should guide the info seeker through the rest of the process.
I'd just like to say to some of those inquiring minds that if you have the capability to surf for other stuff then do your research before posting here. I am just as happy to coach the newbies/youngsters but c'mon, get off yur a$$ and use your own head first..
(Slowly stepping down from soapbox now)....
dB
 
yes its nice to know what powders work well with x chambering / components but when comes down to what what works its usually no good trying to use someone elses pet load. I found that most popular pet loads still have to be tweaked a little anyways.
 
For me a maual is just a good place to find a starting load. A chrony is just as important.
As for case length, I use a lee case trimmer, so I cannot get it wrong. The velocity difference between one manual and another, and the difference between loads in one manual and another is just proof to me that rifles are individuals. I tend toward fairly slow powder, so the cases are close to full. Plus, I experiment with moly coating bullets and barrels, and have to add powder to make up for the reduced friction. I bought a bunch of manuals years ago when I was starting. For the most part they are all dusty now, except for the Hornady one, and that is the one I write my results down in.
 
Many people are under the impression that all rifles are created equally. They think that there is some magic recipe that will turn any rifle into a one hole shooter. It's an old myth that is perpetuated by less knowledgeable people than are found on this board. They come here seeking that knowledge. Usually they get pretty good advice from the members here.
We all had to start some place. It's a fun learning curve for most but for others, the obstacles are high. What comes easy for you may not come easy for me etc. Like computers for instance, I just want it to work, I don't give two hoots about the intricacies of the program and have to many other things on the go to really delve into the darn things. My five year old grandson, can run circles around me, on the floor, out in the yard and especially on the computer.

I like it that some of the guys with a new to them wildcat or any cartridge for that matter is willing to ask, even if he has a loading manual. Some of us here have an attention deficit disorders or suffer from part timers syndrome. I like to think I have a great memory, even if it's only good for a few seconds. I also like the fact that many are willing to delve into their individual rifles to see what will work best for their purposes and do it in a scientific and knowledgeable manner, using as many resources as are available to them. Then there are those that have another life. There are also the types that realise their limits, self imposed or not and stick within those parameters.

If you're one of the fortunate few that can afford to experiment with different firearms and loads, good on you. If you're willing to share your knowledge, good on you again. This isn't rocket science we're practising here but to many, especially newbies that have been ground down by the media to believe we're evil ancient alchemists, yes some of us are, believe it is and are afraid of delving on the dark side.

Take it easy on them. Help them out. Many of them don't have mentors to fall back on ane we're it.

Merry Christmas to all of you by the way.
 
Loading manuals are nothing more than "cookbooks" IMO. Show where to start on developed tested data in test barrels. Good thing to have on the loading bench. Also if you happen to get data off the net or over the telephone from a friend be darn sure to check or cross reference this info with proven data.
 
Any exprienced reloader has a whole heap of loading data filed in that old computer that sits on top of his neck and holds his hat. There is a section there on the burning rates of all common powders. Thus, if someone comes up with his favourite load, the experienced handloader can pretty much evaluate it in his head. If a load is given with say, the same amount of 4320 that he has been using Norma 203 for, he will know it is a reasonable load, but not likely any better than the 203 he has used.
If, on the other hand, someone comes up with a load of 4320 that is about the same amount of powder as the 4350 he has been using in that cartridge, he will immediately say, no way.
Interesting to listen to about three old loaders and shooters talking about their loads. They can ryme off every load each has ever used in his rifle, plus many more, just like they were reading it from a loading book.
Yes, I guess a loading manual is quite a bit like a cook book! Old cooks can rattle off a whale of a bunch of recipes, without looking at their books, also.
 
sometimes when you are out of ammunition and powder/primers/bullets and you go to your favourite superstore, they are too. so you're developing loads for your rifle every time you run into that situation. this seems to be all too comon these days. if your favorite load for your 308 norma involves norma's mrp then you are hooped and need to start load development. some cartridges are just not around any more, nor are the components needed or current data. the new breed of super bullets also requier more attention to load development as they are harder and pressure spike sooner in my experience. with new tech in projectiles we are seeing we have to be more carefull in load selection. and starting loads are more important nowdays than ever. i used to just grab the max load and go, but with a chronograph and the new wonder bullets i am seeing where my mistakes will get me into trouble. this is starting to be a real science and not to be taken lightly. the safety of your rifle is your least worry. be very carefull especially if youre using a relatively fast powder for your cartridge.
 
I do not mind anyone asking for Data!
I have asked myself at times for some of my wildcats that are not in manuals, or listed as different cartridges.

Its nice to see how some of the new powders are working as well.
 
snoopycda said:
sometimes when you are out of ammunition and powder/primers/bullets and you go to your favourite superstore, they are too. so you're developing loads for your rifle every time you run into that situation. this seems to be all too comon these days. if your favorite load for your 308 norma involves norma's mrp then you are hooped and need to start load development. some cartridges are just not around any more, nor are the components needed or current data. the new breed of super bullets also requier more attention to load development as they are harder and pressure spike sooner in my experience. with new tech in projectiles we are seeing we have to be more carefull in load selection. and starting loads are more important nowdays than ever. i used to just grab the max load and go, but with a chronograph and the new wonder bullets i am seeing where my mistakes will get me into trouble. this is starting to be a real science and not to be taken lightly. the safety of your rifle is your least worry. be very carefull especially if youre using a relatively fast powder for your cartridge.
Click to expand...

In the example you gave, running out of Norma MRP for your 308 Norma, is no problem, whatsoever, if you can get H4831.
Just load the same weight of H4831 and you've got it. H4831 is bulkier, so it may not all go in, without some tamping down.
 
I often ask the question when loading a new cartridge. I generally go to the Hornady manual first then H/IMR/Win site.

Often though the manual will list 4 differernt powders with similar velocities and it helps to get some others advice on which one to start with.
 
There are a few reasons to ask but if you are asking because you are too cheap to buy a "first manual" then don't be surprised what you might get. A simple keystroke for 45.6 grains of 4350 could easily turn out to be 54.6 of 4320. I would really hesitate to give information to a noobie with a (0) trader rating for that simple fact. Sharing information with a known a trusted CGNer is a vast difference.
Another reason a question may arrive is when your manual fails to list a particular powder.
Errors seen in print and at the range give cause to treat many requests with suspicion. What works in my rifle may be disastrous in another. The variations in Cartridges, chambers, barrels, powders, bullets and a little knowledge may be dangerous.
 
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