Loads for 45 colt in a winchester 1873
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No, they are not. Standard pistol loads, no more (And not Ruger or TC there either). - dan
Hornady gives a range of 4.8 to 6.9 with that powder and 255 gr lead bullets. So it will undoubtedly work. - dan
powdergun: The online: Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, is a good resource for suitable loads. Including lead bullet loads. As a matter of interest, HP 38 works well in this caliber. If Unique/Universal are available, these are good powders for .45 Colt, too.
Note: This may be useful. According to the Hodgdon site, powder charges for the 230 grain lead RNFP, range from min: 5.8 grains, to max: 7.3 grains HP 38.
Al
Note: This may be useful. According to the Hodgdon site, powder charges for the 230 grain lead RNFP, range from min: 5.8 grains, to max: 7.3 grains HP 38.
Al
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During the last big powder drought a few years ago I tried HP38/Win231 in 45 Colt for CAS loads.
Ran them over the chronograph and found that powder to be very position sensitive.
Tipping the muzzle up or down before the shot made a big difference.
I decided against using it. Ended up going with Titegroup.
Ran them over the chronograph and found that powder to be very position sensitive.
Tipping the muzzle up or down before the shot made a big difference.
I decided against using it. Ended up going with Titegroup.
I found that in a Model 1917 S&W, rechambered and rebarreled for the 45 colt.
Win 231 works better with a magnum primer, but even then, position of powder in the case makes a lot of difference.
I use a dacron plug, on top of the powder to hold it against the primer. It can be purchased in 1cm thick rolls and a half inch punch will cut a couple of hundred plugs in less than half an hour.
I have also used press paper wads, cut with a 1cm punch, they stay in place quite well, because they fit tight inside the case.
The Dacron is much quicker and easier though.
As to the OPs first question, take dan belisle's words to heart.
The 1873 was originally developed to be used with interchangeable revolver rounds, to keep things handy and prevent mishaps.
I don't know how strong late production 1873s are, depends on the steel being used.
If you want something that will take higher pressures, Winchester made a Model 94, that was chambered for the 45 colt cartridge.
Win 231 works better with a magnum primer, but even then, position of powder in the case makes a lot of difference.
I use a dacron plug, on top of the powder to hold it against the primer. It can be purchased in 1cm thick rolls and a half inch punch will cut a couple of hundred plugs in less than half an hour.
I have also used press paper wads, cut with a 1cm punch, they stay in place quite well, because they fit tight inside the case.
The Dacron is much quicker and easier though.
As to the OPs first question, take dan belisle's words to heart.
The 1873 was originally developed to be used with interchangeable revolver rounds, to keep things handy and prevent mishaps.
I don't know how strong late production 1873s are, depends on the steel being used.
If you want something that will take higher pressures, Winchester made a Model 94, that was chambered for the 45 colt cartridge.
I tried all sorts of thicknesses, from letter(printer) paper, to playing cards, heavier press board paper appx twice the thickness of playing cards.
The best paper was waxed paper wads, sold by Belosier out of Alberta. The wads were quite flexible and the wax helped to keep them in position.
Now, I just use Dacron matting, but I still use a paper wad, made from printer paper to stop the powder from getting into the matte.
I don't believe it would cause any issues, but it makes me feel better.
The wads from Belosier were for 20 gauge black powder shot shells. A bag of a thousand costs more to ship than the wads cost.
Just go to your local Princess Auto or some place similar and get a half inch punch. You can make up a thousand in less than an hour
The best paper was waxed paper wads, sold by Belosier out of Alberta. The wads were quite flexible and the wax helped to keep them in position.
Now, I just use Dacron matting, but I still use a paper wad, made from printer paper to stop the powder from getting into the matte.
I don't believe it would cause any issues, but it makes me feel better.
The wads from Belosier were for 20 gauge black powder shot shells. A bag of a thousand costs more to ship than the wads cost.
Just go to your local Princess Auto or some place similar and get a half inch punch. You can make up a thousand in less than an hour
It's not the steel that makes an 1873 Winchester (type) rifle weaker...it's the toggle link action. Toggles are what lock the action up...too much pressure will bend those toggles. The 1894 Marlins have much stronger actions while the 1892 Winchesters are even stronger than the Marlins.
Just load Unique - IMR 4227 or Trail Boss as per reloading manual and be done with it.
There is no voodoo loading that round..dacron and other filler will just increase the occurence of a rigned chamber.
Stay with standard load.. no monkeying. Magnum primer are not needed for any suitable powder in the .45 Colt
Small load of fast powder is not gonna give you accuracy or velocity out of a rifle.
Listen to what EhGun is saying…
There is no voodoo loading that round..dacron and other filler will just increase the occurence of a rigned chamber.
Stay with standard load.. no monkeying. Magnum primer are not needed for any suitable powder in the .45 Colt
Small load of fast powder is not gonna give you accuracy or velocity out of a rifle.
Listen to what EhGun is saying…
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Rooster59: Haven't observed any position sensitivity with HP38/231 in .45 Colt cartridges to date, but don't doubt it could occur. Have certainly seen it happen with other calibers. Seems to occur most often with light bullets matched with very light powder charges. Throw in a too-light crimp, and erratic powder ignition does seem to occur more frequently. I prefer to stick to mid-range loads or a bit stouter.
My go-to powder for the .45 Colt most often, is either Unique, or its near-twin sister: Universal. Overall good performer in this caliber, at least in my experience. Bullet weights anywhere from 200-250 grains.
Most of us will have our own personal favourites. Your gun will often dictate what it likes. I still believe that black powder is the ideal propellant for the big Colt cartridge(But only in revolvers.....44-40 a better choice, in rifle). But, that's a discussion for another day.
Al
ps: Powdergun: I echo EhGuns's advice. The 1873's toggle-link action....though very smooth operating, is its weak spot. Nothing good will come out of trying to turn these rifles into magnums. Stick to published load data for standard revolver cartridge loads, and you and the rifle will get along, just fine.
My go-to powder for the .45 Colt most often, is either Unique, or its near-twin sister: Universal. Overall good performer in this caliber, at least in my experience. Bullet weights anywhere from 200-250 grains.
Most of us will have our own personal favourites. Your gun will often dictate what it likes. I still believe that black powder is the ideal propellant for the big Colt cartridge(But only in revolvers.....44-40 a better choice, in rifle). But, that's a discussion for another day.
Al
ps: Powdergun: I echo EhGuns's advice. The 1873's toggle-link action....though very smooth operating, is its weak spot. Nothing good will come out of trying to turn these rifles into magnums. Stick to published load data for standard revolver cartridge loads, and you and the rifle will get along, just fine.
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trebor2880: Either cartridge works well in the '73. Only downside of the .45 Colt: it's a bit dirtier.....more blowback into the action. Due to the Colt cartridge's straight-walled design. Plus, relatively thick case walls. Cases don't expand enough....especially when using light powder charges....to provide a tight seal in the chamber. So sootier shooting. Generally not a big deal when shooting smokeless. *
Can become a pain in the neck when shooting bp, though. Using a bullet designed for bp shooting.....with a generous lube reservoir...helps to reduce fouling somewhat. As does a couple of squirts of Ballistol into the elevator mortise and action, every now and then. Still, no reason not to favour this cartridge. Just be prepared for a bit more clean up.
The 44-40, is well designed to handle bp. Its thinner case neck expands very reliably and seals the chamber efficiently. Blow back is minimal. I have not seen any real advantage of this cartridge over the .45 Colt, when shooting smokeless. Considerably less smoke and blow back into the action, that's about it.
Reloading components, ie: brass, bullets etc., .45 Colt may be easier to source in some instances, than .44-40. But not really an issue. Also, revolvers chambered in .45 Colt are more readily available on dealer's shelves, than their .44 counterparts. So far easier to build a battery for CAS competition, etc. An advantage having rifle/revolvers chambered alike. Of course, CAS shooters often mix/match these calibers. Most don't see this as more than a minor inconvenience.
It all boils down to personal preference.
Al
ps: * Have run into the same issues when shooting .38/.357, too.
Note: Annealing the .45 Colt case mouths allows them to expand a bit easier, reducing blowback.
Can become a pain in the neck when shooting bp, though. Using a bullet designed for bp shooting.....with a generous lube reservoir...helps to reduce fouling somewhat. As does a couple of squirts of Ballistol into the elevator mortise and action, every now and then. Still, no reason not to favour this cartridge. Just be prepared for a bit more clean up.
The 44-40, is well designed to handle bp. Its thinner case neck expands very reliably and seals the chamber efficiently. Blow back is minimal. I have not seen any real advantage of this cartridge over the .45 Colt, when shooting smokeless. Considerably less smoke and blow back into the action, that's about it.
Reloading components, ie: brass, bullets etc., .45 Colt may be easier to source in some instances, than .44-40. But not really an issue. Also, revolvers chambered in .45 Colt are more readily available on dealer's shelves, than their .44 counterparts. So far easier to build a battery for CAS competition, etc. An advantage having rifle/revolvers chambered alike. Of course, CAS shooters often mix/match these calibers. Most don't see this as more than a minor inconvenience.
It all boils down to personal preference.
Al
ps: * Have run into the same issues when shooting .38/.357, too.
Note: Annealing the .45 Colt case mouths allows them to expand a bit easier, reducing blowback.
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