Loads for a 1913 model 94 30-30

[mossyhorns]

Hello,

So I have a 1913 mod 94 that prints all modern factory ammo high at 50 and 100 yards. It has a flip up rear sight and I cannot adjust the point of impact any lower ( the rear sight cannot be lowered and the front sight is fixed) . I'm thinking that factory ammo from 1913 was very different then today. I've used both 150 and 170 grain with the same results. The rear sight is graduated in metric up to 1000 meters.

Anyone out there load for the older mod 94's to get a closer POI to POA with these older rifles? I suspect the velocities were a bit different then.

I haven't started loading yet and hoped someone could give me a place to start.

Thanks,

Mossyhorns

 

[jethunter]

I don't think the 30-30 loads have changed all that much since 1913, How high are you at 50 and 100 yds?

My 1917 M94 shoots factory ammo within the sighting adjustment range at 100 yds. Are you sure that your rear sight is stock? Maybe someone stuck that rear sight on and it's not the right height for your rifle; that kind of stuff happens. If I were you I would look at buying either a winchester or after market rear sight of the correct height. Or you could go with a taller front sight if you want to keep the rear sight you have now.

 

[savagefan]

I have a 94 made in 1957, I replaced the sights with Williams FP set. Very accurate and easy on my old eyes.

 

[scs]

You could try Trail Boss powder, at 25 yds I have to crank my rear site up a lot.

 

[Skinny 1950]

.30WCF is it the same as 30-30?

 

[Maritime Storm]

30 WCF was how Winchester originally named it, other ammo makers refered to it as the 30-30 and the name stuck.

 

[07blackwater]

Try 9-10 grains of unique with a 150 grain lead or plated bullet.

Mine prints about 3 inches lower at 50 yds and about 5-6 inches lower at 100 with that load.

 

[Muskyhunter1]

I had the same problem with Mod 94 in 38-55. For $20.00 I bought a Marbles rear sight. Carefully removed the old one with a brass punch and put it away safe. I installed the new one and filed it down. Works great.

 

[9.3mauser]

The original loading of the .30 WCF was a 165 gr. bullet @ 1950 fps, iirc,

 

[mossyhorns]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really want to keep the original sights in place if I can and was hoping to find the right bullet/load combination that would hit closer to my point of aim. The rifle has French proof marks and appears to be a Belgian Congo and the rear metric ladder site is original to this rifle. I really don't want to start knocking sights off if I can avoid it. I like the idea of keeping it original.

For those that are wondering it is about 10 inches high at 100 yards. My original thought was that because it was ordered by the British Government with the intention of being used in the Belgian Congo conflict then maybe it was zeroed at 200 meters??

I have difficulty posting pics from my iPad but if I get a chance I'll post a pic of the rear sight so you see what I mean.

I did post pictures on page 53 of the thread "30-30 club are you in" under hunting and sporting arms I just don't know how to link them?

 

[mbogo3]

And the 30-30 /30WCF was always smokeless.The 1894 and 94 's were 1-12" twist.

 

[07blackwater]

Does the front sight look like it's been damaged?

 

[mr.e moose]

Delete

 

[mossyhorns]

Front site is original as is the rear sight. My thoughts now is that is was set up to shoot at 200 meters with the ladder sight down as the first graduation on the ladder sight is 300 meters.

 

[07blackwater]

If you're set up for reloading try the unique load it mentioned above. I started a thread about it in the reloading section and listed the velocities for different charges. I think the 9 grain load will get you in the ball park.

Here it is... http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?889828-30-30-plinkers-with-unique

 

[mossyhorns]

Thanks I'll do that for sure.

Here's the rear sight I was refering to



and the front sight

 

[07blackwater]

How about a side view of the rear sight? If it's not too low already it's not hard to tap them out if you need to put a lower one in.

Just remember that with winchesters you tap the left side of the site looking down to remove it, it seems that the dovetail or site is tapered so that they come out the right side.

If the factory site is already a low profile there's no point changing it and, personally, I think messing with the front site is asking for trouble.

 

[outdoors]

The front sight blade is removable by drifting out the pin shown in your photo and installing a higher blade. I had to do something similar with an '86 src (Browning) and I shaped a penny to fit. Was easy to work with, cheap, and easy to replace with the original if desired. I don't think that you will be able to make up ten inches with normal loads unless you change sights. For plinking, the Unique load might do the trick. Could also try some 190 grain bullets intended for the .303 Savage if you could find some.

I think your idea of the rifle being sighted for 200 meters sounds plausible. Does anyone know how the few military muskets were sighted? Back in the glory days of Winchester you could have almost what ever you wanted.

 

[mossyhorns]

The rear sight is as low as it can go. No harm in replacing the front sight with a higher one as long as imkeepmthe original I guess. I'll fiddle with that a bit and see what I can come up with.

 

[9.3mauser]

Before fiddling with the rifle, try loading some 170 gr down to around 1,950 fps and see what that does.