What did you order? A 9 or 223?
Lockhart Tactical Raven 9 thoughts, impressions and reviews
- Thread starter CV32
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What did you order? A 9 or 223?
I have to report that after 843 rounds down range, while finishing up cleaning the carbine I dry fired the gun to release the cocked hammer. The firing pin broke. This is the second firing pin that I have had break on me. Both pins broke in exactly the same place. I sent off an email to Lockhart and they put a new pin in the mail to me the day they received the email. It will arrive here on Monday. Great service for an item that should not be breaking. I have been shooting since I was 12 years old and I can't remember having a firing pin break on me.
The design of the Raven9 FP is odd in that the pin itself is overly long. In all my other rifles the pin's shaft is quite large relative to the pin it is holding. In the Raven 9 it is the opposite. The shaft is quite short and the pin itself is relatively quite long. I want this gun to work for me in IDPA PCC Division. Idaho is having a State Match this year and I don't want to get half way through the match and find my FP broke.
I reached out to Lockhart to discuss the design of the pin and have not heard from them since I got the shipping info on the new pin . They are good at getting the item out free of charge but ...
My buddy here in Terrace has more rounds then I do on both his Raven 9 and his .223 version of the gun. He has had no issues so I am going to chalk it up to luck of the draw and hope this is the last pin that breaks on me. Anyone else have firing pins break on their Raven9?
Broken pins aside the gun has run flawlessly after the break in period. My gun likes the RN 124gr RN BDX bullets so I should be set. I just hope I have seen the end of the "Saga of Broken Pin".
Take Care
Bob
ps I am going to take both my Raven9 and my FX9 to the Idaho shoot and if I am lucky, I might catch a club match in Calgary. Bruce and Kim put on great club matches and it would be nice to spend some time with them before coming home.
The design of the Raven9 FP is odd in that the pin itself is overly long. In all my other rifles the pin's shaft is quite large relative to the pin it is holding. In the Raven 9 it is the opposite. The shaft is quite short and the pin itself is relatively quite long. I want this gun to work for me in IDPA PCC Division. Idaho is having a State Match this year and I don't want to get half way through the match and find my FP broke.
I reached out to Lockhart to discuss the design of the pin and have not heard from them since I got the shipping info on the new pin . They are good at getting the item out free of charge but ...
My buddy here in Terrace has more rounds then I do on both his Raven 9 and his .223 version of the gun. He has had no issues so I am going to chalk it up to luck of the draw and hope this is the last pin that breaks on me. Anyone else have firing pins break on their Raven9?
Broken pins aside the gun has run flawlessly after the break in period. My gun likes the RN 124gr RN BDX bullets so I should be set. I just hope I have seen the end of the "Saga of Broken Pin".
Take Care
Bob
ps I am going to take both my Raven9 and my FX9 to the Idaho shoot and if I am lucky, I might catch a club match in Calgary. Bruce and Kim put on great club matches and it would be nice to spend some time with them before coming home.
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Coming from group who claim, " if it is running well why not fix it?" I tried 160gr lead round nose bullets in my Raven9 OAL 1.15 per Hogdon Reloading Manual over 2.6gr of Titegroup. Well I ran into problems with nose up stove pipes. I added weight to the buffer and reduced the weight of my spring to slow the bolt return. Shooting in five shot strings, 2 0f the five rounds would invariably nose up and stove pipe. Returning home I loaded up three groups of five rounds reducing the the OAL by 1/100th" thinking maybe the cartridges are to long. That didn't work BUT by chance all five rounds at OAL 1.14 ran thru the gun without incident. SUCCESS? Nope. It seems my mag was resting on my gun bag forcing it to sit tight, no wiggle no up and down play but the rounds ran thru the gun as they should.
Now for those who know me it is by no means an amazing feet that I noticed what had happened. I then took 10 rounds of my original loading, OAL 1.15" and using the 10rd KCI mag that came with the gun, ALL rounds ran like butter thru a popcorn bowl. Turns out the KCI mag along with two Glock mags don't fit tight when latched in the gun. The wiggle both a bit up and down and sideways. This doesn't appear to prevent the 124 gr RN FMJ rounds from running fine but add some weight to the bullet and the nose up jams begin. The gun wont shoot 147gr RNFP bullets either.
My question to you fellows who use the Raven9 and shoot a lot, is this. Does your gun run RNFP or HP ammo at any weight reliably. Have you tried 160 gr RN bullets in your gun with success?
Lastly do your mags fit tight in the gun with the bolt closed or do the wiggle either up or down or sideways? Before contacting Lockhart I thought I would ask here.
My CX4 Storm and a friends Scorpion PCC's don't move in either way when they are inserted in the gun. The best answer from you guys might be that yours fit tight If that were the case I would go directly to Lockhart with the hopes of replacing the mag well.
Take Care
Bob
Now for those who know me it is by no means an amazing feet that I noticed what had happened. I then took 10 rounds of my original loading, OAL 1.15" and using the 10rd KCI mag that came with the gun, ALL rounds ran like butter thru a popcorn bowl. Turns out the KCI mag along with two Glock mags don't fit tight when latched in the gun. The wiggle both a bit up and down and sideways. This doesn't appear to prevent the 124 gr RN FMJ rounds from running fine but add some weight to the bullet and the nose up jams begin. The gun wont shoot 147gr RNFP bullets either.
My question to you fellows who use the Raven9 and shoot a lot, is this. Does your gun run RNFP or HP ammo at any weight reliably. Have you tried 160 gr RN bullets in your gun with success?
Lastly do your mags fit tight in the gun with the bolt closed or do the wiggle either up or down or sideways? Before contacting Lockhart I thought I would ask here.
My CX4 Storm and a friends Scorpion PCC's don't move in either way when they are inserted in the gun. The best answer from you guys might be that yours fit tight If that were the case I would go directly to Lockhart with the hopes of replacing the mag well.
Take Care
Bob
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My previous post about the Raven 9 was in the original Raven thread which has since mistakenly been moved to the black rifles section. Since my actual video review is a ways away and I just passed 10,000 rounds at nationals, I'll give a bit of an update on the gun.
- Firing pin issue. Since breaking a firing pin at ~800 rounds, I'm now over 9000 rounds without another breakage.
- Falling mags. The aluminum magazine release failed early on, had more material welded on to fix, and then failed at Christmas, roughly at 7000 rounds. Samuel sent a new one immediately and I've gone 3000 rounds without noticeable wear. The release should be steel.
- Bolt. I've now encountered about 20 Raven 9's in person and most that I've been able to inspect have developed a burr on the bolt where the rounds are stripped from the magazine. Mine has as well, and I have had to file off the burr twice this year. This has caused the followers on my KCI magazines to have a strip of plastic shaved off them, and I suspect this has caused the new feeding issues.
- Feeding issues. In some cases I have a round stuck halfway into chambering. If I notice it, I can smack the stock and it finishes chambering. It's hard to nail this one down to one root cause, but it's probably the mags. I had a handful of feeding issues in the first hundred rounds, then nothing from then until 7000 rounds. In this time I was using the stock 19" barrel, the LT adjustable buffer and nothing but FH munition round nose 124gn. After that, I switched to a Faxon 10.5", had the gun registered, and switched to the Scheel roller-delayed buffer system. The RDBS requires a bit of play in the bolt when closed and has noticeably less spring force to chamber rounds, due to the rollers absorbing much more force, reducing felt recoil significantly. Less spring force COULD = feeding issues. The Faxon barrel has a feeding cone machined into it. This allows the Raven to feed flat nose, hollowpoints, and any other bullets I've tried with ease. However, it is a change, and as unlikely as it is that could be causing feeding issues. Lastly, the magazines could simply be wearing out. Since I number my magazines and only mag 3 and 7 out of 12 seem to be the issue, I'm going to call this worn out mags. 10,000 rounds is a lot. The bolt wearing the follower doesn't help either.
- Accuracy. Before I SBR'd the gun I did one last grouping and it was holding between 2.5-4MOA, there was wind, and the gun was filthy. It had not been cleaned in 7000 rounds. With the Faxon, I'm getting around 3MOA, which is likely due to the bolt play that's necessary for the RDBS. Inconsistent contact with the lands of the rifling = variations in accuracy. Doesn't matter to me though, it's a PCC, and doesn't have any business doing work beyond 100 anyways.
Here is my recommendation to anyone buying a factory Raven 9:
1. Use nothing but steel-lined magazines like Glock or KCI if you want them to last more than a couple thousand rounds and be reliable
2. Use nothing but round nose ammo unless you swap to a barrel with a feeding cone
3. Keep an eye on the bolt for the burr
4. Use their adjustable buffer to reduce felt recoil, or shell out for an RDBS/Kynshot/MBX air buffer.
5. Keep spare firing pins in your range bag
At the end of the day, I've been around a lot of PCC's shooting IPSC. Just this weekend at nationals I saw literally every model have some kind of malfunction, from the FX-9 to the Ruger to the SPC-9 to the JR carbine. If you haven't had a malfunction in your rifle, you haven't shot it very much. I still highly recommend the Raven, you must understand that blowback 9's are a lot like open guns, they are finicky unless you spend a hefty sum on the best of the best (open = infinity, PCC = JP5) and we can't get the best of the best right now. Yes, I have spent quite a bit of time learning the Raven and figuring it out, but I have also won both nationals with it which wouldn't be possible if it was a POS.
Taylor
And just for the hell of it, here's it in action. one of the malfunctions I described happens at 1:19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8UFh5rsIw4&lc=UgzeH6WgRknab2KlCdV4AaABAg
- Firing pin issue. Since breaking a firing pin at ~800 rounds, I'm now over 9000 rounds without another breakage.
- Falling mags. The aluminum magazine release failed early on, had more material welded on to fix, and then failed at Christmas, roughly at 7000 rounds. Samuel sent a new one immediately and I've gone 3000 rounds without noticeable wear. The release should be steel.
- Bolt. I've now encountered about 20 Raven 9's in person and most that I've been able to inspect have developed a burr on the bolt where the rounds are stripped from the magazine. Mine has as well, and I have had to file off the burr twice this year. This has caused the followers on my KCI magazines to have a strip of plastic shaved off them, and I suspect this has caused the new feeding issues.
- Feeding issues. In some cases I have a round stuck halfway into chambering. If I notice it, I can smack the stock and it finishes chambering. It's hard to nail this one down to one root cause, but it's probably the mags. I had a handful of feeding issues in the first hundred rounds, then nothing from then until 7000 rounds. In this time I was using the stock 19" barrel, the LT adjustable buffer and nothing but FH munition round nose 124gn. After that, I switched to a Faxon 10.5", had the gun registered, and switched to the Scheel roller-delayed buffer system. The RDBS requires a bit of play in the bolt when closed and has noticeably less spring force to chamber rounds, due to the rollers absorbing much more force, reducing felt recoil significantly. Less spring force COULD = feeding issues. The Faxon barrel has a feeding cone machined into it. This allows the Raven to feed flat nose, hollowpoints, and any other bullets I've tried with ease. However, it is a change, and as unlikely as it is that could be causing feeding issues. Lastly, the magazines could simply be wearing out. Since I number my magazines and only mag 3 and 7 out of 12 seem to be the issue, I'm going to call this worn out mags. 10,000 rounds is a lot. The bolt wearing the follower doesn't help either.
- Accuracy. Before I SBR'd the gun I did one last grouping and it was holding between 2.5-4MOA, there was wind, and the gun was filthy. It had not been cleaned in 7000 rounds. With the Faxon, I'm getting around 3MOA, which is likely due to the bolt play that's necessary for the RDBS. Inconsistent contact with the lands of the rifling = variations in accuracy. Doesn't matter to me though, it's a PCC, and doesn't have any business doing work beyond 100 anyways.
Here is my recommendation to anyone buying a factory Raven 9:
1. Use nothing but steel-lined magazines like Glock or KCI if you want them to last more than a couple thousand rounds and be reliable
2. Use nothing but round nose ammo unless you swap to a barrel with a feeding cone
3. Keep an eye on the bolt for the burr
4. Use their adjustable buffer to reduce felt recoil, or shell out for an RDBS/Kynshot/MBX air buffer.
5. Keep spare firing pins in your range bag
At the end of the day, I've been around a lot of PCC's shooting IPSC. Just this weekend at nationals I saw literally every model have some kind of malfunction, from the FX-9 to the Ruger to the SPC-9 to the JR carbine. If you haven't had a malfunction in your rifle, you haven't shot it very much. I still highly recommend the Raven, you must understand that blowback 9's are a lot like open guns, they are finicky unless you spend a hefty sum on the best of the best (open = infinity, PCC = JP5) and we can't get the best of the best right now. Yes, I have spent quite a bit of time learning the Raven and figuring it out, but I have also won both nationals with it which wouldn't be possible if it was a POS.
Taylor
And just for the hell of it, here's it in action. one of the malfunctions I described happens at 1:19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8UFh5rsIw4&lc=UgzeH6WgRknab2KlCdV4AaABAg
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Taylor after watching your 2024 win on YouTube I have to think you could win PCC with a home made zip gun. The firing pin issue IMHO is due to an issue with the bolt, the batch of firing pins or a poorly designed pin. My vote goes to a poorly designed firing pin. Why they would design a proprietary FP is beyond me. They build quality is excellent and the price point leaning towards the high end for an AR.style carbine. The firing pin has to be the outlier.
Tale Care
Bob
Tale Care
Bob
I bought a Raven and had it for a month before the pcc nationals this year. From the day I opened the box it has had issues, multiple things not tight on the gun. issues with the buffer detent coming out of the recess finally bending so it does not want to come out. I also got the Kci mag that it comes with and this mag likes to drop out when it feels like its a good time to do so. Glock 17 mags work ok when first firing but when you do a mag change they stove pipe rounds, I have played and played with different lengths and have gotten no where. I changed out the buffer to there adjustable one and have had the same results. With approx 500 rounds on the gun the bolt is burred like Taylor has mentioned. I have talked to Sam and his attitude is that's not a warranty issue. So you spend the money to purchase his firearm, it has problems and then they don't back there product, I think we all know this about Sam and he will never see another dollar from me. Sure others are having there raven 9's working well but what did that take to make happen, changing barrels,handguards, buffers, firing pins ect. I bought this gun as it was referred to me, buyer beware.
To the other raven owners that have had to fix issues with there ravens, what have you done to make it run as it should from the manufacturer?
To the other raven owners that have had to fix issues with there ravens, what have you done to make it run as it should from the manufacturer?
The only issue I have with my Raven is it will not function using FP OR RNFP, Truncated Cone, or Hollow Point bullets.
The gun does not have a feed ramp or throated barrel. With either and I suspect those bullets would likely feed properly.
Your experience with warranty issues is not mine.
Take Care
Bob
The gun does not have a feed ramp or throated barrel. With either and I suspect those bullets would likely feed properly.
Your experience with warranty issues is not mine.
Take Care
Bob
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I ordered a caliber conversion kit a few months ago. Another 9mm upper. I knew there was going to be a wait time and it took 5 weeks to ship. Not dissatisfied about that but it was a much greater wait than my first experience.
I selected a platiunim upper and gold magwell with no handguard. When it showed up the barrel didn't have a barrel nut. Since I didn't select a hand guard this makes sense but I didn't expect it. So heads up to anyone you will need to be able to torque an ar style barrel nut if you go this route.
Second surprise was my gold magwell came without a left side bolt release. Didn't expect that so heads up. I got the gold magwell with the caliber conversion because I don't really like the Ambi bolt controls on the platinum magwell I have already. So yeah, that was unfortunate.
I broke a firing pin around 400 rounds. I also was doing a lot of dry fire on an empty chamber. Since then no dry fire on an empty chamber and no firing pin problems.
I got a few thousand rounds through it without a malfunction, and I am happy with the rifle. All 124gr campro rn. Makes IPSC pf with 3.2 grains of tg at 1.115/.3765
I selected a platiunim upper and gold magwell with no handguard. When it showed up the barrel didn't have a barrel nut. Since I didn't select a hand guard this makes sense but I didn't expect it. So heads up to anyone you will need to be able to torque an ar style barrel nut if you go this route.
Second surprise was my gold magwell came without a left side bolt release. Didn't expect that so heads up. I got the gold magwell with the caliber conversion because I don't really like the Ambi bolt controls on the platinum magwell I have already. So yeah, that was unfortunate.
I broke a firing pin around 400 rounds. I also was doing a lot of dry fire on an empty chamber. Since then no dry fire on an empty chamber and no firing pin problems.
I got a few thousand rounds through it without a malfunction, and I am happy with the rifle. All 124gr campro rn. Makes IPSC pf with 3.2 grains of tg at 1.115/.3765
AlphaCharlieDelta
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Still doesn't shoot as smooth as it could tho Dan... Hydraulic buffer perhaps?? Hehehe
