Only thing as of late was a few gasblocks cracking the middle where set screws go.
Lockhart Tactical Raven - Does anyone actually have one or is it just social media po
- Thread starter Bratwurst
- Start date
Only thing as of late was a few gasblocks cracking the middle where set screws go.
that's cool that it uses an ar bolt. that makes the bolt carrier the only real unobtanium part; if they can sort that out then there's hope.
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mag release, bolt release, and charging handle are also all proprietary.
i could personally live without those - i like the redundancy in rear/side charging handles, and never use the bolt catch. and when alibaba stops supplying the mag catches i'm sure someone will 3d print something ...
That was 2 months ago, haven't heard anything since. Once a hater, always a hater?
Those same people are now watching as the bolt carriers on the Raven are cracking
It's almost like maybe just maybe people should wait for in depth high round count testing to take place before forming an opinion instead of jumping on the latest bandwagon
You seem far to offended just stating a point if anyone had not seen that. Sold it as as soon as i got it regardless. Don't like the stock height on the receiver, the charging handle. If this works out tthis should be a keeper. Lets not forget about the firing pin issue that was also missed in the first place with bolts on the siberian. The 9mm raven has be flawless if the bolt carrier is the issue and rectified i see no issues. An those that were able to have ars can make choices again now.
You don't have to justify your bad decisions to the public. Nobody cares.
Cgn has turned in to reddit and fb the last few years unfortunately. Everyone ####ting on everyone choices. Buddys raven 9 looks to be solid. Said best fit and machining. I wish they would of gone with a more conventional handgaurd setup that isnt held in by a push pin. Will see how this all plays out. I have a ton of donor parts im looking forward tonsince i missed out on the atrs reviever sales.
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Undergiver
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sturgeon County, AB
It would be nice to develop a AR180 type upper that accepts AR-15 carriers.
So quick update from my end. Here's a quick summary of everything I've encountered:
Recoil system
I've already posted the theory on the adjustable buffer earlier, but I'll update my situation concerning short-stroking. SS'ing the rifle is done for a few reasons; to reduce parts wear (bolt/breach face battering) to reduce recoil, and to speed up cycle time. This is NOT something Lockhart recommends or endorses, this is simply a modification I have done after consulting some of the top PCC shooters in the US. I have a .950" spacer added to the rear of my buffer tube which I spun up in the shop. This reduces the overall bolt travel of the rifle by about 19%. The result is a slightly snappier recoil impulse but less dot movement under recoil. This modification disables your bolt catch which I don't want or need for practical shooting anyways.
After testing a few lengths of the spacer the .950" length is the longest I can go without compromising reliability. With longer spacers I encountered dead triggers and FTF since the magazine spring was not fast enough to have the next round ready. Since I settled on that length at ~800 rounds, it hasn't left the gun.
Trigger
I have a video posted in the Raven facebook group on this point. I got the TriggerTech with my Raven and have switched it out for my HiperFire ECL simply because there is far more reset force. This is only of interest to people who want to race their guns (IPSC).
Obviously the Raven takes all AR triggers. I can personally confirm that HiperFire, TriggerTech and Timney triggers work.
I used the trigger pins from the TT for my ECL. They use 1/16" allen screws. If you are new to these pins, THREADLOCK THEM. I was encountering dead triggers on a semi-regular basis (3-4 per 100 rounds) and while my short-stroke spacer length was a contributor the pins were the main culprit as the screws had backed off and they were drifting. This also cause the gun to double or triple on me. Since they were cleaned, threadlocked and torqued at 1400 rounds I have had zero issues.
Magazines
I've found the best magazines by far are the KCI 30/10 magazines. They are pinned to 10, but are more like 10.5 so seating them on a closed bolt is not difficult. The rivet is shallow enough that you can disassemble the mag for cleaning, which is very important for IPSC. They have steel feed lips, which is also important for PCC according to the PCC shooter's I've been talking to in the US.
I cannot get my ETS 30/10 magazines to feed reliably, which was the case with the FX9. I gave up on them.
The KCI 10 round mag that came with the rifle is equally as reliable as the big sticks.
Glock 10 round factory magazines do not have sufficient spring tension and I've encountered a few FTF on the last 1-2 round using them. They're retired. (may not be an issue if your rifle is not short stroked)
PMAG 17/21/27 pinned mags are quite reliable, however I don't use them much anymore because they can't be fully disassembled. Once they're dropped in the dust at a match, they go in the bag and cleaning them is a *****. They also are pinned exactly at 10 and don't seat well on a closed bolt without re-pinning.
At the end of the day I 100% recommend you stick with KCI. Marstar has big sticks for $44.
BCG
When I first disassembled the rifle I was a bit surprised at the design of the firing pin. It tapers very quickly to a small OD which rides inside the channel of the bolt front (the modular portion of the BCG). The pin itself is 2.65" and for the front 1.4" it is only 70 thou wide. Considering it is riding inside a portion of the BCG that has some play (not much) I suspected this would be a failure point. I was right. at 800 rounds my firing pin snapped at the shoulder radius. I did not notice it was broken until I disassembled the gun to film something. The rifle was still operational with a broken pin but would occasionally double on me. This is the only glaring issue with the Raven 9 at this point. This issue does not seem unique to me. One of my friends had a pin break on him in the middle of a 32 round stage a few weekends ago and caused him to zero a stage. I have also heard of a range in BC that has broken a pin on their range model. Samuel is aware of it and I believe changes are being made.
A few quick stats about my rifle:
-~3000 rounds shot. Almost entirely FH munitions factory 124 round nose match grade ammo. Some 121gn handloads.
- 135pf ammo will run much hotter through the long Raven barrel (obviously) at about 158pf. V spicy. I notice mild pressure signs on most of my primers.
- No cleaning yet. There is minor/moderate carbon buildup on the bolt front, minor in the trigger assembly, and noticeable in the barrel. It won't be cleaned until I encounter issues.
- 3-4 FTF from bolt lock in the first 100 rounds. After that, no issues until I started ******* with the SS spacer length to find the sweet spot - not the gun's fault.
- Over 20 instances of dead triggers with both the TT and ECL triggers, up to 1400 rounds. Since then, no issues of any kind.
- Accuracy is excellent, at least for my purposes. I have a 6MOA red dot and the few groups I have shot sit around 4.5" at 100. <2" at 40.
- The rifle was propped on a chair and fell over, landing on the side charging handle. The threads on the BCG for the right side are now slightly warped and the charging handle takes more effort to remove compared to the side that I never use. Not a big deal, but it happened.
- The buffer detent has bent slightly towards the chamber. Probably my fault and due to experimenting with an AR10 spring and long SS spacers. No impact on performance/reliability/function.
Now I don't like getting into pissing matches online, but I would like to clear a few things up. Keep in mind that I have no affiliation to Lockhart. I'm not sponsored, paid or compensated in any way by him. Explaining reality is not simping. If you don't have any personal experience with a product, spouting hate and speculation (or fanboying) is just foolish. Pass on verified information, rumours don't help anyone.
Yes, this is an expensive gun for the average Joe. However I wonder if the people complaining about the cost have any experience in manufacturing/machining/engineering. The cost to design and manufacture a product like this for such a niche market carries a level of risk that most machine shops would never touch, not to mention the insane gamble of submitting your design to the firearms lab. The cost for material, CNC time and Cerakote alone is barely covered in the advertised cost, let alone design and R&D. This isn't a rifle made by a company like Colt who can crank out 10,000 units per year and batch test rifles with 10,000 rounds. He's a small shop selling small quantities of rifles. Even relatively larger shops like Kodiak, Spectre and BCL run into significant issues. Even Sig has significant issues with product launches. You are going to have to deal with issues, you are going to be a guinea pig. You can call it settling or you can understand it's the reality of manufacturing. How those issues are dealt with is what's important to me. When my firing pin broke I had 2 new ones en route to me within 2 days. I don't know if I can ask for more than that.
I'll be doing a full review on the rifle after PCC nationals.
Recoil system
I've already posted the theory on the adjustable buffer earlier, but I'll update my situation concerning short-stroking. SS'ing the rifle is done for a few reasons; to reduce parts wear (bolt/breach face battering) to reduce recoil, and to speed up cycle time. This is NOT something Lockhart recommends or endorses, this is simply a modification I have done after consulting some of the top PCC shooters in the US. I have a .950" spacer added to the rear of my buffer tube which I spun up in the shop. This reduces the overall bolt travel of the rifle by about 19%. The result is a slightly snappier recoil impulse but less dot movement under recoil. This modification disables your bolt catch which I don't want or need for practical shooting anyways.
After testing a few lengths of the spacer the .950" length is the longest I can go without compromising reliability. With longer spacers I encountered dead triggers and FTF since the magazine spring was not fast enough to have the next round ready. Since I settled on that length at ~800 rounds, it hasn't left the gun.
Trigger
I have a video posted in the Raven facebook group on this point. I got the TriggerTech with my Raven and have switched it out for my HiperFire ECL simply because there is far more reset force. This is only of interest to people who want to race their guns (IPSC).
Obviously the Raven takes all AR triggers. I can personally confirm that HiperFire, TriggerTech and Timney triggers work.
I used the trigger pins from the TT for my ECL. They use 1/16" allen screws. If you are new to these pins, THREADLOCK THEM. I was encountering dead triggers on a semi-regular basis (3-4 per 100 rounds) and while my short-stroke spacer length was a contributor the pins were the main culprit as the screws had backed off and they were drifting. This also cause the gun to double or triple on me. Since they were cleaned, threadlocked and torqued at 1400 rounds I have had zero issues.
Magazines
I've found the best magazines by far are the KCI 30/10 magazines. They are pinned to 10, but are more like 10.5 so seating them on a closed bolt is not difficult. The rivet is shallow enough that you can disassemble the mag for cleaning, which is very important for IPSC. They have steel feed lips, which is also important for PCC according to the PCC shooter's I've been talking to in the US.
I cannot get my ETS 30/10 magazines to feed reliably, which was the case with the FX9. I gave up on them.
The KCI 10 round mag that came with the rifle is equally as reliable as the big sticks.
Glock 10 round factory magazines do not have sufficient spring tension and I've encountered a few FTF on the last 1-2 round using them. They're retired. (may not be an issue if your rifle is not short stroked)
PMAG 17/21/27 pinned mags are quite reliable, however I don't use them much anymore because they can't be fully disassembled. Once they're dropped in the dust at a match, they go in the bag and cleaning them is a *****. They also are pinned exactly at 10 and don't seat well on a closed bolt without re-pinning.
At the end of the day I 100% recommend you stick with KCI. Marstar has big sticks for $44.
BCG
When I first disassembled the rifle I was a bit surprised at the design of the firing pin. It tapers very quickly to a small OD which rides inside the channel of the bolt front (the modular portion of the BCG). The pin itself is 2.65" and for the front 1.4" it is only 70 thou wide. Considering it is riding inside a portion of the BCG that has some play (not much) I suspected this would be a failure point. I was right. at 800 rounds my firing pin snapped at the shoulder radius. I did not notice it was broken until I disassembled the gun to film something. The rifle was still operational with a broken pin but would occasionally double on me. This is the only glaring issue with the Raven 9 at this point. This issue does not seem unique to me. One of my friends had a pin break on him in the middle of a 32 round stage a few weekends ago and caused him to zero a stage. I have also heard of a range in BC that has broken a pin on their range model. Samuel is aware of it and I believe changes are being made.
A few quick stats about my rifle:
-~3000 rounds shot. Almost entirely FH munitions factory 124 round nose match grade ammo. Some 121gn handloads.
- 135pf ammo will run much hotter through the long Raven barrel (obviously) at about 158pf. V spicy. I notice mild pressure signs on most of my primers.
- No cleaning yet. There is minor/moderate carbon buildup on the bolt front, minor in the trigger assembly, and noticeable in the barrel. It won't be cleaned until I encounter issues.
- 3-4 FTF from bolt lock in the first 100 rounds. After that, no issues until I started ******* with the SS spacer length to find the sweet spot - not the gun's fault.
- Over 20 instances of dead triggers with both the TT and ECL triggers, up to 1400 rounds. Since then, no issues of any kind.
- Accuracy is excellent, at least for my purposes. I have a 6MOA red dot and the few groups I have shot sit around 4.5" at 100. <2" at 40.
- The rifle was propped on a chair and fell over, landing on the side charging handle. The threads on the BCG for the right side are now slightly warped and the charging handle takes more effort to remove compared to the side that I never use. Not a big deal, but it happened.
- The buffer detent has bent slightly towards the chamber. Probably my fault and due to experimenting with an AR10 spring and long SS spacers. No impact on performance/reliability/function.
Now I don't like getting into pissing matches online, but I would like to clear a few things up. Keep in mind that I have no affiliation to Lockhart. I'm not sponsored, paid or compensated in any way by him. Explaining reality is not simping. If you don't have any personal experience with a product, spouting hate and speculation (or fanboying) is just foolish. Pass on verified information, rumours don't help anyone.
Yes, this is an expensive gun for the average Joe. However I wonder if the people complaining about the cost have any experience in manufacturing/machining/engineering. The cost to design and manufacture a product like this for such a niche market carries a level of risk that most machine shops would never touch, not to mention the insane gamble of submitting your design to the firearms lab. The cost for material, CNC time and Cerakote alone is barely covered in the advertised cost, let alone design and R&D. This isn't a rifle made by a company like Colt who can crank out 10,000 units per year and batch test rifles with 10,000 rounds. He's a small shop selling small quantities of rifles. Even relatively larger shops like Kodiak, Spectre and BCL run into significant issues. Even Sig has significant issues with product launches. You are going to have to deal with issues, you are going to be a guinea pig. You can call it settling or you can understand it's the reality of manufacturing. How those issues are dealt with is what's important to me. When my firing pin broke I had 2 new ones en route to me within 2 days. I don't know if I can ask for more than that.
I'll be doing a full review on the rifle after PCC nationals.
I can see from the picture that this must have been one of the first ones. The set screws are different than on the current models. The gas block is also heat treated differently, the newer ones have a darker colour.
You can also see the post from CanadianMultigun who have 5K rounds down without problems. They got theirs a few weeks ago. That's why I always wait a little bit before buying. No big deal in my opinion. Just call Rose at BCL.
Brandon Herrera noted his concern with the skeletonized bolt carrier on the SIG Spear when he did a video on it. Raven may have been trying to chase the latest and greatest thing, but with the smaller .223 bolt carrier problems have appeared more quickly then they would no a bigger calibre, as there has not been the same issue noted with the Spear...yet. Hopefully returning to a more traditional BCG will increase the durability of the Raven's BCG. For all the Jard J180's problems with dropping magazines, its hefty bolt carrier was not one if its issues 
.
Actually they are 500 rounds into it and things aren’t going well fyi
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MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Great report! Thanks for sharing. I'm considering the Raven 308, so reading a thorough review on the Raven 9 version is very helpful (though understood to not have the same engineering challenges, natch), thanks!
