Long action chamber in short caliber , good and bad ??!!

dan belisle said:
The M17 was simply the "Americanised" version of the British P14, which had been envisioned originally as a 280 (similar to the 280 Ross, who's ballistics impressed a lot of people at that time). Hence the longer action. WW1 put an end to that plan, however. I have built quite a few large magnums on those actions, from a 375 Wby to a wildcat 30-416 Rigby Improved. They are a very good action for those kind of mods, but it is a lot of work to get them right. Still, at the time, there weren't a lot of other options. Wouldn't be my first choice for a target gun, but they are certainly capable of good accuracy. - dan
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Yes. I have more or less a "set" - a P13 (action only) with matching serial number bolt. Several P14's - some sported and some "un-sported" to be "all matching", but no long stocks / hand guards for them. A couple M1917 including one in full stock with brand / mark showing WWII overhaul at Augusta Arsenal (with WWII contractor barrel). And a "pretend" Rem Model 30 - stock and barrel are original, action is not, trigger guard metal is straightened neck by me, and magazine box re-shaped - from military ones.
 
dan belisle said:
That's because the 6.5 CM folks haven't figured out the 260 is actually faster. More case capacity is advantageous. And if you aren't loading it for basically an AR10 mag or similar, there is no advantage to the 6.5. Works fine, either way. - dan
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I'm well aware that the .260 has more case capacity and can therefore be pushed faster. The issue is that Remington basically let that cartridge languish and Hornady came out with the 6.5 Creed, which in factory form, does everything that the .260 can do but fits in an AR-10/2.80 OAL mag. They optimized the performance of the cartridge in a form factor that fit within the existing standard OAL. That's why far more rifles are chambered in 6.5 Creed nowadays since the (very marginal) benefit of the .260 can only be achieved by hand loading and using mags with no binder plate. I wouldn't be surprised to see .260 disappear entirely as a factory chambering in the next 5-10 years.
 
offer me to build my next rifle , while I have action and stock , long action , I do not want to limit myself in LA calibers ,
all purposes ,
 
dan belisle said:
That's because the 6.5 CM folks haven't figured out the 260 is actually faster. More case capacity is advantageous. And if you aren't loading it for basically an AR10 mag or similar, there is no advantage to the 6.5. Works fine, either way. - dan
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Actually I think literally every single person who makes the conscious decision to get a 6.5 Creedmoor understands that it's slightly slower then the .260.

Perhaps 6.5 Creedmoor owners are smart enough to realize that:

1. The 6.5 Creedmoor is actually supported by manufacturers, with more options from rifle manufacturers to quality factory match and hunting ammo
2. That the 6.5 Creedmoor has an optimized OAL to take advantage of the modern 6.5mm projectiles, with the ability to get optimized OAL while still being able to mag feed
3. That small bit of speed is inconsequential, and that consistency in velocity (ES/SD) and reliability in all conditions is much more valuable then hot rodding a cartridge to squeeze out a few extra fps
 
kthomas said:
Actually I think literally every single person who makes the conscious decision to get a 6.5 Creedmoor understands that it's slightly slower then the .260.

Perhaps 6.5 Creedmoor owners are smart enough to realize that:

1. The 6.5 Creedmoor is actually supported by manufacturers, with more options from rifle manufacturers to quality factory match and hunting ammo
2. That the 6.5 Creedmoor has an optimized OAL to take advantage of the modern 6.5mm projectiles, with the ability to get optimized OAL while still being able to mag feed
3. That small bit of speed is inconsequential, and that consistency in velocity (ES/SD) and reliability in all conditions is much more valuable then hot rodding a cartridge to squeeze out a few extra fps
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Most of the people I have met with 6.5 CM's (and 260's for that matter) really aren't that knowledgeable about the cartridges capabilities or drawbacks. Akin to the folks you meet who have a 7mm/300 Whizz bang magnum, the killingest cartridge out there, etc. People are people, and gunnies aren't really any different. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
Most of the people I have met with 6.5 CM's (and 260's for that matter) really aren't that knowledgeable about the cartridges capabilities or drawbacks. Akin to the folks you meet who have a 7mm/300 Whizz bang magnum, the killingest cartridge out there, etc. People are people, and gunnies aren't really any different. - dan
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I hear that. "Can't kill nothing without a 7mm/300 uber-magnum!" :rolleyes:
 
kthomas said:
Actually I think literally every single person who makes the conscious decision to get a 6.5 Creedmoor understands that it's slightly slower then the .260.

Perhaps 6.5 Creedmoor owners are smart enough to realize that:

1. The 6.5 Creedmoor is actually supported by manufacturers, with more options from rifle manufacturers to quality factory match and hunting ammo
2. That the 6.5 Creedmoor has an optimized OAL to take advantage of the modern 6.5mm projectiles, with the ability to get optimized OAL while still being able to mag feed
3. That small bit of speed is inconsequential, and that consistency in velocity (ES/SD) and reliability in all conditions is much more valuable then hot rodding a cartridge to squeeze out a few extra fps
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You would be surprised at the number of guys I talk to at our range that have no ide of the differences between the .260Rem and the 6.5 CM! Most figured the CM is ballistically better especially at long range!
These guys mostly shoot factory ammo, none compete, and the majority have been hunting for less that 10years.
Most of them are running some sort if chassis, a bipod ( usually a Harris) or a Lead Sled and learned danged near everything they know from the internet hunting shows.
Cat
 
iron cat said:
You would be surprised at the number of guys I talk to at our range that have no ide of the differences between the .260Rem and the 6.5 CM! Most figured the CM is ballistically better especially at long range!
These guys mostly shoot factory ammo, none compete, and the majority have been hunting for less that 10years.
Most of them are running some sort if chassis, a bipod ( usually a Harris) or a Lead Sled and learned danged near everything they know from the internet hunting shows.
Cat
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Ya, two nickels and some pocket lint must be better than one dime huh.
 
Maple57 said:
Ya, two nickels and some pocket lint must be better than one dime huh.
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The fact remains that when I am asked an opinion for a rigke to shoot at our range I always ask if they plan to hand load and if gge answer is "no", well up here the obvious answer is 6.5 Creedmoor , simply because ourcstore up here always has a good supply of factory ammo .
Cat
 
Factory match ammo availability was the main driver for me going creedmoor originally, as I didn't reload at the time.
Even now that I reload, looking back at it was a good decision. Even with all the shortages it's way easier to find good creedmoor brass in stock.
With all these new cartridges hitting market the important thing is to buy enough brass to last the life of the barrel. Just in case they lose their hotness
 
rugbydave said:
Defiance (and maybe some others?) make a medium action called "XM" length that is between a typical short action and a long. It's the way to go for something like a 7SAUM.
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That's good to know, I was about to start complaining about the 6.5 PRC being neutered for oal in short action AI mags. Guess the question is what's the stock/chassis/mag selection like for xm length actions?
 
fridge450 said:
That's good to know, I was about to start complaining about the 6.5 PRC being neutered for oal in short action AI mags. Guess the question is what's the stock/chassis/mag selection like for xm length actions?
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The MDT ACC comes in a Defiance XM inlet and I believe the HNT will at some point. MDT also makes mags for the XM.
 
Unholysavage said:
Factory match ammo availability was the main driver for me going creedmoor originally, as I didn't reload at the time.
Even now that I reload, looking back at it was a good decision. Even with all the shortages it's way easier to find good creedmoor brass in stock.
With all these new cartridges hitting market the important thing is to buy enough brass to last the life of the barrel. Just in case they lose their hotness
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Even with reloading, I see pretty much no reason to go with a .260 in this day and age.

The extra few fps doesn't outweigh the cons. And if I really was concerned about having more horsepower then a 6.5 Creedmoor, I would be looking at cartridges different then the .260.
 
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