Long Branch Copy from Aus/Vietnam?

cantom

cantom

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I've been ogling my brand new Australian International Arms M10B No 4 Mk 4 rifle for a couple of hours. I'm starry eyed- it is a beautiful rifle! I actually can't find much I don't like except the MK II rear sight, and I have replacements in hand, so that's not an issue. I have a CMK 3 LB sight and an NOS Jungle Carbine sight...gotta choose...

I wish the stripper clip guide had been machined into these rifles, not sure why it wasn't? Last round bolt hold open feature is also somewhat annoying and unnecessary.

I believe in the development of this rifle, they (Bruce Gentner?) had a Long Branch No 4 Mk 1* in their hands to copy. Why? 2 obvious features- the safety looks exactly the same as the fish tail safety on my 1949 Long Branch. Also, the bolt head removal system is the No 4 Mk 1* system exactly, which was never used in England(as far as I know) and certainly not in Australia, which made only the No 1 Mk III Lithgow rifles. I believe they've cadged elements of these rifles from our beloved Canadian Long Branch design, which makes me warm to this rifle even more than I already was.

Does this rifle have a surplus Minigun barrel? I wish I knew...it is chrome lined. Unfortunately it didn't spin when I pulled the trigger...(darn!)

One thing of note to experienced Enfield hands- the 2 band screws and buttstock sling swivel screws insert from the right! Rear guard screw is from the left.

The bolt head is a beautiful piece of engineering, I wish they'd make one for retrofit on to No 4 Enfield rifles, I could use these on my 2 7.62 No 4 rifles for positive ejection.

The receiver is indeed import stamped Sabre Defence Industries Nashville TN, as I had read was likely. Far from obtrusive, you have to look for it.

I very much like the grey parkerizing and the target sling swivel.

Is inserting the mag quickly awkward? It'll take some practice but I can say it's not that bad...probably not worse than any other No 4 style rifle and better than I had expected.

Worth the money? Yes, it is. This rifle is actually so cool I have frostbite on my hands...


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The safety is akin to a Long Branch "slipper" shape, and the bolt head release is patterned after a I* rifle, probably for the same reason - its cheaper to manufacture. Only Savage and LB mass produced I* rifles; it was authorized for production in Britain, but the Brits passed, feeling the separate catch was a superior system. The counterbored boltface is an excellent adaptation for a rimless cartridge. The Australians modify boltfaces for their .223 conversions - counterbored and a plunger ejector installed. I've experimented with the alteration, and boltfaces can be machined with carbide tooling. Don't think a boltface could be altered for a 7.6s No.4, though. There are probably no cuts for a charger because the rifle may be intended to be reloaded with a spare magazine. And setting the rifle up to use NATO standard chargers would have been an additional design complication and would have required more cuts. The magazine is adapted from the M-14 design. Is the follower patterned after the stamped one in a M-14 magazine, with the projecting shoulder on the left side? I wonder if a different follwer could be fitted. No need for a hold open follower on a civilian bolt action rifle.
Perhaps the best sight to retrofit would be a PH4 target sight. High quality with precise windage and elevation adjustments. Second choice could be a Mk. I service sight with an 8/53 attachment. This would limit available elevation, but would be fine for most purposes. These rifles are reported to be good shooters; better sights would be very worthwhile.
Be sure to let us know how it shoots.
 
tiriaq said:
The safety is akin to a Long Branch "slipper" shape, and the bolt head release is patterned after a I* rifle, probably for the same reason - its cheaper to manufacture. Only Savage and LB mass produced I* rifles; it was authorized for production in Britain, but the Brits passed, feeling the separate catch was a superior system. The counterbored boltface is an excellent adaptation for a rimless cartridge. The Australians modify boltfaces for their .223 conversions - counterbored and a plunger ejector installed. I've experimented with the alteration, and boltfaces can be machined with carbide tooling. Don't think a boltface could be altered for a 7.6s No.4, though. There are probably no cuts for a charger because the rifle may be intended to be reloaded with a spare magazine. And setting the rifle up to use NATO standard chargers would have been an additional design complication and would have required more cuts. The magazine is adapted from the M-14 design. Is the follower patterned after the stamped one in a M-14 magazine, with the projecting shoulder on the left side? I wonder if a different follwer could be fitted. No need for a hold open follower on a civilian bolt action rifle.
Perhaps the best sight to retrofit would be a PH4 target sight. High quality with precise windage and elevation adjustments. Second choice could be a Mk. I service sight with an 8/53 attachment. This would limit available elevation, but would be fine for most purposes. These rifles are reported to be good shooters; better sights would be very worthwhile.
Be sure to let us know how it shoots.
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I have the big ungainly Albert Parker sight on my LB DCRA...the PH sights are great but not so commonly available and expensive...due to the other couple of LB traits displayed I might drop in that CMK3 sight...I'm not planning to scope this rifle.

Might be a few weeks before I can shoot it.
 
Apparently the PH4s predated the 5Cs. Being a direct replacement for the service sight, installing exactly the same way, and folding when not in use, it is the most compact of the target sights; cost about the same as a 5C or AJP. The 8/53 attachments do turn up from time to time, usually for $50 or so, and will fit any Mk. I sight. Having click adjustable windage and elevation is a real asset for a recreational rifle. A CMk.3 will at least give elevation adjustments in steps.
 
tiriaq said:
The 8/53 attachments do turn up from time to time, usually for $50 or so, and will fit any Mk. I sight.
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You can still buy them direct from AJP in England.... :)

For Enfield No.4 Rifles with Mk1 Micrometer Sights
 (A.J. Parker Model 8/53)

Regards,
Badger
 
cantom
"Last round bolt hold open feature is also somewhat annoying and unnecessary."

I've got a feeling that hold open has been unintentinally inhereted while copying M14 mags, too ;) Maybe I'm wrong, but I see no other explanation. If I don't find a follower, some day I'll just take a file ;)
Enjoy your new toy. I'm in a process of scoping mine Sport right now. Did yours come with the mount too?
 
V1 said:
cantom
"Last round bolt hold open feature is also somewhat annoying and unnecessary."

I've got a feeling that hold open has been unintentinally inhereted while copying M14 mags, too ;) Maybe I'm wrong, but I see no other explanation. If I don't find a follower, some day I'll just take a file ;)
Enjoy your new toy. I'm in a process of scoping mine Sport right now. Did yours come with the mount too?
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I'm sure it's just an M14 follower, I think it's hard chromed or something...not a major issue, just a minor annoyance. It does definitely appear to be a newly made mag body though, to comply with Canadian mag issues.

Mine came with the scope mount, cheekpiece, extra mag and sight tool. No bag though...I don't have any extra scopes around so no plans to put one on.

Adjusting/grinding down the back of the follower to eliminate the hold open feature might happen one day, wouldn't be the first time I've done that. (I think I did it on my FR7)

Which rifle did you get? ( I see you said Sport http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/M10-B1.shtm )
I thought about the B2/L42A1 clone, but decided I wanted the parkerizing and full wood.

I feel it's worth the money...what do you think?
 
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cantom said:
I've been ogling my brand new Australian International Arms M10B No 4 Mk 4 rifle for a couple of hours. I'm starry eyed- it is a beautiful rifle!
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Maybe we can manufacture these rifles right here in Canada, all the Lee-Enfield patents have expired, anybody want to start an Arms Manufacturing business in Canada? That would create MORE revenue for Government! M305's made in Canada?
 
Vic777 said:
Maybe we can manufacture these rifles right here in Canada, all the Lee-Enfield patents have expired, anybody want to start an Arms Manufacturing business in Canada? That would create MORE revenue for Government! M305's made in Canada?
Click to expand...

Thought about it would cost alot to start the company up though, mainly because how I see it you'd need a few good 100ton plus presses and dies to be made up to stamp or cold form (Hammer forge) as many of the smaller parts as possible so you dont pay someone skilled in using a mill or a lathe to make the parts slowly. :)

But with the right bussince plan I'm sure you could make them for about 700-900$ Canadian (for the Enfield Clone the M14 will probably end up costing as much as it does from Springfield Armoury). :D As once you have good quality dies made you should be able to produce possibly hunderds of thousands of parts on the dies before they cant be sharpend anymore. And even then if you set it up right you can make the dies modular so you can replace sections of the dies as needed without having to junk the whole thing too! :dancingbanana:

Would be fun but the cost of the presses and CNC machines to automate as much as possible to cut labour costs (who says Canadian Industry cant compete with cheap labour in other countries ?? :p ) would be alot so unless someone was sitting on a few hunderd thousand dollars it would be hard to get off the ground. :runaway:

Dimitri
 
Is that a PH sight? My AJP on my LB attaches through the ejector screw, which these rifles lack. Also, the whole receiver profile is different anyway from Enfield, not what the sight was designed to fit at all, except of course for the rear sight cutaway on top.
Did you have to mod the sight or it didn't use the ejector screw anyway?
Looks great btw!


Beater said:
target site really helps. a member here has allready done it, with a lil help it turned out very well.

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The gentleman who has many Ithaca parts in Southern Ontario(lots of people will know who that is) told me that in the early 70's there were like 550 people employed in firearms manufacturing in Canada. Trudeau put the kibosh on it with tariff changes etc., let's face it, the Liberal Party is anything but firearm friendly and probably didn't want them made here.
I guess there is Para Ordnance, and I think there's other firearm related manufacturing outfits in Canada...
How AIA has managed to navigate through the extreme anti-gun government bs in Australia boggles the mind...my hat's off to em. I like their product.


Dimitri said:
Thought about it would cost alot to start the company up though, mainly because how I see it you'd need a few good 100ton plus presses and dies to be made up to stamp or cold form (Hammer forge) as many of the smaller parts as possible so you dont pay someone skilled in using a mill or a lathe to make the parts slowly. :)

But with the right bussince plan I'm sure you could make them for about 700-900$ Canadian (for the Enfield Clone the M14 will probably end up costing as much as it does from Springfield Armoury). :D As once you have good quality dies made you should be able to produce possibly hunderds of thousands of parts on the dies before they cant be sharpend anymore. And even then if you set it up right you can make the dies modular so you can replace sections of the dies as needed without having to junk the whole thing too! :dancingbanana:

Would be fun but the cost of the presses and CNC machines to automate as much as possible to cut labour costs (who says Canadian Industry cant compete with cheap labour in other countries ?? :p ) would be alot so unless someone was sitting on a few hunderd thousand dollars it would be hard to get off the ground. :runaway:

Dimitri
Click to expand...
 
BadgerDog said:
You can still buy them direct from AJP in England.... :)

For Enfield No.4 Rifles with Mk1 Micrometer Sights
 (A.J. Parker Model 8/53)

Regards,
Badger
Click to expand...

Badger or anyone else- got a Mk 1 sight with that add-on sight to sell me? I'd be interested.
 
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