I have stumbled into a 1941 Long Branch No.4 Mk.1 restoration, and I have located and/or bought a lot of the rarer parts that will return the poor little rifle back to its original condition (except for patina and wear - trying to match for that). The major remaining part that has been eluding me is the early Mk.1 button-type cocking piece. How often do they show up and, when they do, how much do they tend to go for? I have an option of purchasing a later Long Branch that I spotted with the early cocking piece, swapping out the cocking piece for a later, but still correct for a later rifle, Mk.2 cocking piece, then selling the rifle. This, obviously, would be a lot of messing around that I could well do without, but if Mk.1 cocking pieces are that rare, it might be my only option. Comments?
Long Branch Mk.1 cocking pieces - hen's teeth?
- Thread starter spinecracker
- Start date
Sgt Striker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Great White North, Eh!
Of all the gunshows I've gone to here in Ontaro over the past 15 years or so, I've only seen "one".
Needless to say, good luck...
Needless to say, good luck...
They do show up once in a blue moon. I don't have a spare by the way. Most were swapped out when the rifles were FTRed. Someplace, somewhere somebody has a large box full. Then again, maybe not.
You're also on the MKN site. Why not send Peter Laidler a PM and ask him if he know where there are any? He has access to all kinds of stuff that we can only dream about. If your rifle, bears an FTR mark, the later cocking piece is correct.
Something else to think about, be extremely careful about firing pin protusion if you find a replacement and change it out. It isn't just a matter of popping it in, like it is on a Mauser or Springfield.
You're also on the MKN site. Why not send Peter Laidler a PM and ask him if he know where there are any? He has access to all kinds of stuff that we can only dream about. If your rifle, bears an FTR mark, the later cocking piece is correct.
Something else to think about, be extremely careful about firing pin protusion if you find a replacement and change it out. It isn't just a matter of popping it in, like it is on a Mauser or Springfield.
bearhunter, I was aware of the firing pin issue, but I am glad that you mentioned it as others may not be.
There is a mark indicating some form of refurbishment on the buttsocket (see photo below), but there are are no other markings on the rifle that would indicate a full FTR -
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/pix2258380453.jpg
Please note that the photos were taken before I had degreased the rifle - it was filthy.
My other question on this rifle is what is the metal finish - some areas on the receiver are quite worn and have a greyish tint, but the rest of the receiver and barrel is jet matt black, although this isn't clear from these photos (the flash makes everything look grey):
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/Enf7557pics007.jpg
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/pix2258380593.jpg
I know that purist may not like me trying to make this look like a 1941 Long Branch that is in original configuration but has had a hard life, but many of the parts beyond the receiver and barrel were pretty much toast, and would have had to be replaced at some point anyway. The previous Long Branch I owned was in the original configuration, but had a very rough life, and some bugg...errr...bad person had sanded the stock down to paper thinness in places and sliced a lump out of the buttstock and rear sight - grrrr.
There is a mark indicating some form of refurbishment on the buttsocket (see photo below), but there are are no other markings on the rifle that would indicate a full FTR -
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/pix2258380453.jpg
Please note that the photos were taken before I had degreased the rifle - it was filthy.
My other question on this rifle is what is the metal finish - some areas on the receiver are quite worn and have a greyish tint, but the rest of the receiver and barrel is jet matt black, although this isn't clear from these photos (the flash makes everything look grey):
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/Enf7557pics007.jpg
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/pix2258380593.jpg
I know that purist may not like me trying to make this look like a 1941 Long Branch that is in original configuration but has had a hard life, but many of the parts beyond the receiver and barrel were pretty much toast, and would have had to be replaced at some point anyway. The previous Long Branch I owned was in the original configuration, but had a very rough life, and some bugg...errr...bad person had sanded the stock down to paper thinness in places and sliced a lump out of the buttstock and rear sight - grrrr.
PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
Maybe, maybe not...
I'll have a look-see in my parts bin; I like it when it feels like you won the lottery!
PP.
I'll have a look-see in my parts bin; I like it when it feels like you won the lottery!
PP.
longbranch*
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria,BC.
Cocking piece
Could go with a more common early war Brit piece. My '41 LB wears one.
Geoff
Could go with a more common early war Brit piece. My '41 LB wears one.
Geoff
I had members at another forum shouting at me that the sharing between Savage and Long Branch didn't happen until later - does anyone have definitive information about when Long Branch and Savage traded parts?
I did pick up a very nice unserialed Long Branch magazine today, with a solid underside, perfect wear and a slight hint of plum to the bluing - for $30. Could not be happier (I could have got it for $15, but I felt guilty).
I did pick up a very nice unserialed Long Branch magazine today, with a solid underside, perfect wear and a slight hint of plum to the bluing - for $30. Could not be happier (I could have got it for $15, but I felt guilty).
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Shared parts
Gee, that information about parts sharing is interesting. However, my Savage No.4 Mark 1 rifle was picked out of a box of 10 of them, back in 1962, at Ye Olde Hunter in Alexandria, Virginia. All of them had the round cocking pieces, almost all consecutive serial numbers, and were still in Cosmoline. I don't know about the other ones, but my rifle has a Long Branch cocking knob on it.
Given the condition (New) and the packaging of these rifles, I would say that they had never been issued. If so, it would indicate parts sharing early on in WW2.
Gee, that information about parts sharing is interesting. However, my Savage No.4 Mark 1 rifle was picked out of a box of 10 of them, back in 1962, at Ye Olde Hunter in Alexandria, Virginia. All of them had the round cocking pieces, almost all consecutive serial numbers, and were still in Cosmoline. I don't know about the other ones, but my rifle has a Long Branch cocking knob on it.
Given the condition (New) and the packaging of these rifles, I would say that they had never been issued. If so, it would indicate parts sharing early on in WW2.
They exchanged part on a regular basis but only when they didn't have their own parts available. I suspect, some of the very early Savages would have had the Long Branch "button" cocking piece, because Long Branch had a bunch left over and Savage either hadn't started producing them yet or was in short supply. The same went for most small parts, magazines, barrels, bands and furniture. When the Savage contract was cancelled in late 1944, all of the equipment and parts were shipped to Long Branch.
It doesn't take much thought to realise that during war time production and many expediencies that if different plants were making identical firearms, with interchangeable parts that they would share parts between the two of them, rather than shut down the production lines for lack of in house produced parts.
I just found out my old aunt, worked at Long Branch from 1943-1944. One of her jobs, was to unpack stock parts and take them to the assembly areas. She mentioned that she didn't like it when they received parts from the US, because they were heavier than the parts from Canada. It seems that her jobs changed quite a bit. The attrition rate there was pretty bad. Not because of working conditions but because of the life styles required to work there. My aunt, came off an Alberta farm at 17 years old and went directly into a full out factory environment where quality and speed were the bywords of the day. Many couldn't keep up with the pace and many also only came for the good wages to pay off bills or go to school etc. She said there was as much overtime as they wanted to work. She really liked it. She has a picture of herself and two other girls from Beiseker, Alberta that went there together after applying for the jobs out of an ad in a local newspaper. The train fare there, was taken off their pay. She laughed and said that there wasn't any work in Alberta so none of them minded. She was overwhelmed by how many people were there and what Long Branch did to keep them there. They created a small city around the factory site and provided all kinds of social events. I'm getting off topic, I apologise.
It doesn't take much thought to realise that during war time production and many expediencies that if different plants were making identical firearms, with interchangeable parts that they would share parts between the two of them, rather than shut down the production lines for lack of in house produced parts.
I just found out my old aunt, worked at Long Branch from 1943-1944. One of her jobs, was to unpack stock parts and take them to the assembly areas. She mentioned that she didn't like it when they received parts from the US, because they were heavier than the parts from Canada. It seems that her jobs changed quite a bit. The attrition rate there was pretty bad. Not because of working conditions but because of the life styles required to work there. My aunt, came off an Alberta farm at 17 years old and went directly into a full out factory environment where quality and speed were the bywords of the day. Many couldn't keep up with the pace and many also only came for the good wages to pay off bills or go to school etc. She said there was as much overtime as they wanted to work. She really liked it. She has a picture of herself and two other girls from Beiseker, Alberta that went there together after applying for the jobs out of an ad in a local newspaper. The train fare there, was taken off their pay. She laughed and said that there wasn't any work in Alberta so none of them minded. She was overwhelmed by how many people were there and what Long Branch did to keep them there. They created a small city around the factory site and provided all kinds of social events. I'm getting off topic, I apologise.
outoftowner
Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat, AB
no apologies necessary.
Off topic? No way. Comments passed on from someone who actually worked at the Long branch factory are wonderful historical tidbits, and I am glad that you mentioned them as they add a touch of humanity to the rifles we love.
One question - has anyone written a history of the Long Branch factory?
Back on topic (ok, we never left....), it looks like an LB Mk.1 cocking piece is going to set me back about $100 US - does that sound too crazy? After seeing the LB Mk.1 rear sight go for $250 US on ebay last week, I do not know what to think any more lol.
Bearhunter- This kind of stuff is what makes this forum so worthwhile! Keep em coming!
Not to be a pompous ass here, but this is what I have come up with over the last three years of looking for LB parts. No, not for sale, but an example of what you can find (I have a 41 LB coming in that needs some of these parts).
Top - early low cut wood; middle - early handguard with relief for hinged front band; row left to right - early Zamac butt plate, 4T pads/screws (real LB made ones), mk 1 cocking piece, 4T sight, milled sight, hinged band and lastly a double struck out of Canadian service pattern 07 sling for the 4T.
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Ganite, mind if I ask what markings are on the buttplate?
If things go well, I may be in possession of almost all the parts I need for my restoration in 2 weeks - including the cocking piece AND a hinged upper band - woohoo!!! The hinged upper band may not be correct for a 1941 Long Branch that was put together in 1942 (going by the date on the barrel), but I can keep it on the rifle until another candidate for restorarion shows up lol.
