Long branch no4mk1

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bob_wuzza

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So I found a cut down 1945 long branch.
Front sight is original but next to an original uncut barrel it seems set back further. Like the distance between the sights is shorter.

Are all no4mk1 barrels interchangeable and we’re the long branch barrels different?

There’s also a barreled receiver with an uncut barrel. Wondering if they’re interchangeable
 
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No. 4 barrels may or may not be interchangeable. You will need a barrel vise and action wrench. No. 4 barrels can be a pig to remove.
 
bob_wuzza said:
I’ll find a gun smith with those. Or just do it myself.

Any idea what a bnib walnut Monte Carlo stock would be worth?
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If you've never removed a barrel, especially a barrel from a No4, do a lot of due diligence before attempting it.

You can't use an internal lug wrench as there is nothing for it to grab.

You must use an external wrench that is contoured to the top of the receiver and the underside of the receiver.

I've come across three in the last few months that Bubba tried to take apart. One with a pipe wrench and the other two with a large adjustable jaw wrench most just call Cresent wrenches. They didn't use proper barrel clamps for their vices either. Nothing was salvageable, other than the trigger guard, magazine etc.

I've seen barrels twist while attempting to remove the receiver.

Some need shims to index properly or if you're lucky, you may be able to set the shoulder back a few thou so it will bring the sight to top dead center.

If you aren't familiar with doing such a job on a No4 action, I sincerely suggest taking it to a smith that is. Some are and some aren't. Make sure to veryfy first.

No4 receivers are malleable for the most part. They're only hardened in a few locations. As such they bend and deform easily.

Without the right tools, 99% chance of screwing up a good receiver.
 
I appreciate the insight. There was no plan to bubba anything other than the already bubbaed barreled receiver.
Bubba tried welding a sight rail on there, but the barrel is uncut and other than a slot for a rear sight that will be covered with upper wood it seems ok. I have 2 other no4 mk1, only one is salvageable if I can swap barrels but if I could use the long branch receiver I’d be pumped.
 
bob_wuzza said:
I appreciate the insight. There was no plan to bubba anything other than the already bubbaed barreled receiver.
Bubba tried welding a sight rail on there, but the barrel is uncut and other than a slot for a rear sight that will be covered with upper wood it seems ok. I have 2 other no4 mk1, only one is salvageable if I can swap barrels but if I could use the long branch receiver I’d be pumped.
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well an option is if the receiver is junk anyways then just cut it off and salvage the barrel.
 
I did my first No4 barrel install some 45 years ago under the supervision of the late Tommy Richardson, a well known DCRA shooter in Montreal. Tom was a slight man, but I can still see him hanging in the air on the end of his receiver wrench. If the old barrel is junk, you can ease removal by making a relief cut just behind the shoulder.
 
Fun surprise, turns out the receiver on the complete sporter is a No7,22 in MK1 long branch 1945
I’m happy with it, anybody have any leads on a 22 barrel and parts to get it back together?

Side note: did these originally come with a flip up micrometer sight without battle sights?
 
bob_wuzza said:
Fun surprise, turns out the receiver on the complete sporter is a No7,22 in MK1 long branch 1945
I’m happy with it, anybody have any leads on a 22 barrel and parts to get it back together?

Side note: did these originally come with a flip up micrometer sight without battle sights?
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There have been threads about this. The receiver is the easy part to get.
Not too long ago I posted a thread about making up a No. 7 clone using a sleeved .303 barrel. Getting the specialized .22 parts is a bit of an uphill struggle.

No. 4 rifles came with a click adjustable for elevation sight, the 300/600 flip sight, and a slide adjustable one.
 
bob_wuzza said:
Fun surprise, turns out the receiver on the complete sporter is a No7,22 in MK1 long branch 1945
I’m happy with it, anybody have any leads on a 22 barrel and parts to get it back together?

Side note: did these originally come with a flip up micrometer sight without battle sights?
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Ha Good luck finding a barrel.

I have one :) but it is going on the c No7 NOS receiver I have :)

funny thing is the barrel was on a MkI Martin action I bought for the action without even looking at the barrel, that was a big bonus.
 
woodchopper said:
Ha Good luck finding a barrel.

I have one :) but it is going on the c No7 NOS receiver I have :)

funny thing is the barrel was on a MkI Martin action I bought for the action without even looking at the barrel, that was a big bonus.
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That means you're going to have to weld up the extractor divot on the face, rechamber, and likely set back the shoulder, cut a new extractor slot etc.

It will likely work well but it won't come out right.

Are the front sight mounting lugs still in place? It may have been one of those large action Martinis that was converted to 22LR? I believe some of those Large actions were purposely built, from new, by companies such as Bonehill, as 22cal target/sporting rifles.

The thread diameter and pitch will be the same but the profile will be wrong.
 
tiriaq said:
There have been threads about this. The receiver is the easy part to get.
Not too long ago I posted a thread about making up a No. 7 clone using a sleeved .303 barrel. Getting the specialized .22 parts is a bit of an uphill struggle.

No. 4 rifles came with a click adjustable for elevation sight, the 300/600 flip sight, and a slide adjustable one.
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I was under the impression you were building that rifle as a "repeater" which means much of the barrel would extend back over the mag well and the bolt would have to be modified to feed from whichever magazine you converted for the purpose.

If the OP isn't to fussy, most of the CNo7 parts are interchangeable with those on a No4.

The main parts needed are a proper cut down firing pin/bolt head/extractor/rear sight. The rest shouldn't be to difficult to source.
 
The repeater with a shortened bolt body is another project.
The thread I mentioned is about a straight No. 7 clone built up on one of the ex-stores receivers.
Original No. 7 barrels are in the category of frog's teeth, hen's lips, unicorn farts and honest Liberal politicians, as far as availability is concerned. A .303 barrel can be sleeved.
Complete rear sight assemblies are a bit better.
Bolt heads and firing pins turn up, extractors less so.
A .303 bolt head can be altered, the firing pin is easy to make, and a .303 firing pin can be converted to a striker rod.
A complete set of nice wood and fittings can be found, but prices have been climbing.

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Nice job.

I've been finding that non bubba No4 take off barrels, even with pooched bores are getting extremely difficult to find. Even sporters with intact barrels have priced themselves to high to make the purchase, just for a barrel non worthwhile.
 
I used the best forend that I had on hand. It is a dark stained birch low wall Savage. One of these days I'll stumble across a similar LB walnut high wall, which would be correct for a No. 7. That low wall forend would be a good one for a restoration of a sported '41 or '42 Savage. The other parts are LB. Some of the parts were doggy, so I blasted and parked them.
Still have to do final finishing of my cloned No. 2 Mk. IV made up using salvaged parts on a Lithgow SMLE receiver.

OP - cutting a relief groove to relax some of the torque works. If the barrel is pooched, a hacksaw blade width groove a sixteenth of an inch in front of the receiver works. If the receiver is junk, cut the groove there. This makes a real difference when removing No.4, Enfield and Ross Mk. III barrels.
In theory, a new No. 4 barrel was supposed to turn in hand tight, stopping 14 degrees off index. 120 ft-lbs to pull it to index.
One scrapper I broke down required over 600 ft-lbs to break the barrel loose. (Me hanging on a 3 foot cheater.)
 
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I will add my experience, when I was an "enthusiastic" wanna be! So, I turned inserts for my barrel vice from 1.5" aluminum rod on my lathe - matched that taper on the beginning of the No. 4 barrel - promptly discovered that it really helps to have a least one, if not two layers of plain computer printer paper to prevent aluminum smears onto that barrel. "rosin" - like pitchers use, is very, very helpful to get that stuff to grip and not slip. Then, the No. 4 receiver needs a specific shaped action wrench that will apply humungous amount of torque - without touching that spigot for the front (only?) action screw. I used a four foot snipe - lifted my feet off the floor on first attempt. A good "smack" with a dead blow sledge hammer - with tension applied, got it to unscrew. For a split second, I visualized 350 pound gorillas with 13 foot snipes torquing these things up, back in the day. 75 odd years of corrosion probably did not actually help. That was removing the grungy barrel - next ones, I took the time to hacksaw a groove about 3/16" deep, all around about 1/16" ahead of receiver - turned off as if by hand - comparatively speaking. Re-installing a replacement to get new barrel's bayonet lugs / front sight lugs to exact TDC with the rear sight is as fussy as you want to make it. Then deal with head space. And so on...
 
bearhunter said:
I was under the impression you were building that rifle as a "repeater" which means much of the barrel would extend back over the mag well and the bolt would have to be modified to feed from whichever magazine you converted for the purpose.

If the OP isn't to fussy, most of the CNo7 parts are interchangeable with those on a No4.

The main parts needed are a proper cut down firing pin/bolt head/extractor/rear sight. The rest shouldn't be to difficult to source.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what I want to do yet but I have found a NOS bolt head,
Are you saying you can cut an original firing pin to work?
 
tiriaq said:
The repeater with a shortened bolt body is another project.
The thread I mentioned is about a straight No. 7 clone built up on one of the ex-stores receivers.
Original No. 7 barrels are in the category of frog's teeth, hen's lips, unicorn farts and honest Liberal politicians, as far as availability is concerned. A .303 barrel can be sleeved.
Complete rear sight assemblies are a bit better.
Bolt heads and firing pins turn up, extractors less so.
A .303 bolt head can be altered, the firing pin is easy to make, and a .303 firing pin can be converted to a striker rod.
A complete set of nice wood and fittings can be found, but prices have been climbing.

View attachment 511678
Click to expand...

Lots of useful info here thanks,
Any leads for a thread or technical drawings?
 
tiriaq said:
I used the best forend that I had on hand. It is a dark stained birch low wall Savage. One of these days I'll stumble across a similar LB walnut high wall, which would be correct for a No. 7. That low wall forend would be a good one for a restoration of a sported '41 or '42 Savage. The other parts are LB. Some of the parts were doggy, so I blasted and parked them.
Still have to do final finishing of my cloned No. 2 Mk. IV made up using salvaged parts on a Lithgow SMLE receiver.

OP - cutting a relief groove to relax some of the torque works. If the barrel is pooched, a hacksaw blade width groove a sixteenth of an inch in front of the receiver works. If the receiver is junk, cut the groove there. This makes a real difference when removing No.4, Enfield and Ross Mk. III barrels.
In theory, a new No. 4 barrel was supposed to turn in hand tight, stopping 14 degrees off index. 120 ft-lbs to pull it to index.
One scrapper I broke down required over 600 ft-lbs to break the barrel loose. (Me hanging on a 3 foot cheater.)
Click to expand...

Would making the relief cut allow me to remove the good receiver without damage without an action wrench?
 
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