Long distance 22 ammo

scuba52

scuba52

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My cz 457 doesnt seem to like chambering the eley force, the eley club is very inconsistent past 200 yards but very accurate in close. What are you guys using for long range steel.
I struggled all day today in the wind, borrowed a tikka that likes the force and 250 became a chip shot compared to my eley club. Dont think it is the gun as we were neck and neck all day.
 
I read an old post over at RFC and watched a YouTube video to slug your barrel and get good ammo with the correct bullet diameter for your barrel.

FYI. Eley Tenex, Match and Edge chambers easy in my MTR but like yourself the Eley Club is tight and needs a bit of authority to chamber them.
 
I run SK ammo.... others I supply, run Lapua ammo

Others love Eley

Seem to be the 3 main brands used in CRPS and Action Rimfire. As to which type will shoot best in your rifle? Only testing will tell you.

The winning ammo at the April Action Rimfire match in Mission was ammo that shot horridly in my rifle and another local shooter. 3rd place used Lapua ammo that my rifle also didn't like. I supplied both of them

My ammo didn't shoot well in the 3rd place rifle. My 10/22 McGowen barrel loves another type of Lapua ammo NONE of the above shoot well.

Action Rimfire Mission in April... 1st SK Flatnose Basic, 2nd Eley Club, 3rd Lapua CenterX, 4th didn't get info, 5th SK Rifle match.... my 10/22 loves Lapua Midas+

See a trend?

So what I have been doing is offering a sample pack of ammo that has worked well in "some" rifles. What will work best in yours? I haven't got a clue but whatever does, buy as much of it as you can cause.... you just don't know what will work well again later.

Jerry
 
Yes, i get how the rimfire testing goes. I did the testing, eley club was the 50 and 100 yard winner. Eley force was not far off after about 100 rounds through the barrel. My problem is that the eley force is a beast out at distance. It saves me a 1/2 mil at 100 over the eley club. I just dont like to have to jam it into the chamber. I find that the eley club (great to 100) dies off there as it is a mid range ammo (think that is what they call it). Is there another ammo out that is just a bit heavier like eley force and runs a bit faster (my barrel doesnt mind it) from another manufacturer that has worked ie federal auto match?
 
Everyone I know is running a subsonic match ammo.

If the ammo likes your rifle, it has not issue shooting well at 300yds. The Action Rimfire match had targets at 315yds.

If you want to run Eley Force, test at 300yds and see if it holds together.

Rimfire ammo is going to drop hard...just have a scope with plenty of elevation.

With a short throat, you may find Lapua CenterX or midas+ more to its liking.

Jerry
 
scuba52 said:
Yes, i get how the rimfire testing goes. I did the testing, eley club was the 50 and 100 yard winner. Eley force was not far off after about 100 rounds through the barrel. My problem is that the eley force is a beast out at distance. It saves me a 1/2 mil at 100 over the eley club. I just dont like to have to jam it into the chamber. I find that the eley club (great to 100) dies off there as it is a mid range ammo (think that is what they call it). Is there another ammo out that is just a bit heavier like eley force and runs a bit faster (my barrel doesnt mind it) from another manufacturer that has worked ie federal auto match?
Click to expand...

I don't say any of the following to be argumentative. These questions occur to me when it comes to long range shooting with .22LR and I'm not sure of the answers.

It is clear that unless any ammo has a consistently low MV extreme spread (which means it has a relatively low SD) it is not possible for it to show consistent accuracy at increasingly longer ranges. The greater the MV spread the greater the POI spread on target, especially as range increases.

If Eley Club is only a "mid range ammo," is there a truly long range variety?

If a certain variety of .22LR ammo ("x") is more accurate at 50 and 100 yards -- that is to say it is more accurate than "a", "b", and "c" out to 100 yards -- is it possible for a, b, or c to overcome their deficiency in accuracy to overtake x once past the 100 yard mark? Is it possible for an ammo, branded "long range" or not, to shoot better (MOA-wise) at longer range than shorter, that is at 100 yards than at 50, or at 200 yards than 100?

To put this another way, won't ammo that shoots well at longer distances also shoot very well at shorter ones? To continue with this line of thought, wouldn't an ammo that gives the best results at 100 yards be a better candidate for producing the best results at twice the distance than an ammo that produced lesser results at 100? After all, at the 100 yard mark it's doing better than the other ammos.

To be sure, with some varieties of .22LR ammo accuracy may deteriorate more than others as distance increases.

But is it possible for an ammo to be better than others at 100 yards and still fall short of them in accuracy further out? If that can indeed happen, what might explain why one ammo might have better accuracy out to 100 yards and once further out suffer a greater decrease in accuracy faster than a less accurate round at 100 does when it travels further out?
 
Why do handloads for centre fire show great results at 100 and 200 then disintegrate out farther, as per jerry (who i do trust his advice).
When i fired the eley force at the dirt on purpose to spot impact it was visible, corected and no joy, after an entire mag of skirting the target with random splashes i gave up.
I have used eley force previously, about 1.5 inch 10 shot at 100 but it held results better farther out, this was confirmed yesterday in the 50 km/h winds we were shooting. When i used the tikka that was sighted for the eley, one splash and multiple consistent impacts. Would gladly use this ammo in my 457 but the rounds had to be forced into the chamber (match chamber on an mtr) they do go but bullets would be deformed on the ones that had to be forced.
I do think some 22 performs better at distance than others, not sure why, the difference in club to force is only 2 grains and different lube.
 
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I don't know how it would perform as match ammo, or at 300 M, but my cheaper-to-shoot practice ammo at 100 is Federal 510 in the little blue boxes and I do just fine with it.
 
scuba52 said:
I find that the eley club (great to 100) dies off there as it is a mid range ammo (think that is what they call it).
Click to expand...

grauhanen said:
If Eley Club is only a "mid range ammo," is there a truly long range variety?
Click to expand...

Perhaps some misinterpretation of what "mid-range" ammo means? The Eley website describes Club as a "Club level cartridge with enhanced performance over our entry level Sport cartridge". They do not use the term "mid-range", scuba52 must have seen this elsewhere, perhaps in another thread discussing ammo. I have always taken the descriptor "mid-range ammo" to mean that the ammo is in the middle of a brand's lineup in terms of cost and quality, not as a reference to what distance the ammo performs best.

Since Eley Force does weigh a little more than a standard .22 bullet and is loaded hotter, perhaps it's ballistic properties do hold up better over a distance compared to a lighter and slower bullet. What is the concern with chambering Force in the 457? The cartridge lengths of Club and Force are both 1 inch as per Eley website, I cannot imagine the case of Force is being jammed into the rifling as might be a concern using a CCI Stinger. Does it have a slightly longer driving band than Club? Engagement of the bullet into the rifling is a good thing, and no the bolt won't close like butter when you've got a match chamber. The bullets don't get deformed. In many benchrest rifles, the gunsmith will cut the chamber to engrave the bullets heavily, nearly right up to the case mouth leaving just enough room for the carbon ring to grow. The more engagement, the better (up to the carbon ring limit). Perhaps you just need to get over the way chambering bullets in a match chamber feels compared to a sporter. If Force is working well in your 457, keep using it, there is no reason not to.
 
Good advice, i think it is just the bullet engaging the lands as you stated, yes i might be mis interpreting the eley site. If forcing is not an issue great. Was kind of concerned of deformation, but the bullet will be squeezed through that same bore anyways, just over thinking
 
Keep in mind .22LR was never designed to be a long range cartridge, and most competition with it is 50m or less. Club is also "Used for" Silhouette on the Eley site, and the pigs are 60m, turkeys 77m, and rams 100m. Once we're going past 100m, we're going past the limitations of the cartridge and really on our own to determine what is acceptable performance, the ammo companies cannot guarantee anything for 200y + shooting.
 
Of course, but with todays technology we are using this round out to 300 consistently, not incredibly accurate like centre fire but with the right combination 300m is very doable on a 2/3 ipsc. The 22lr steel is getting very competitive with prs shooters and it is a great way to make the new shooters comfortable at a match, cheaper start. I think the ammo manufacturers are seeing this and the hv ammo will become more consistent, heavier projectiles and ammo ment to push the limits of the lowly little round.
My only intention of this thread was to see if guys have a round that performs better at range, i just noticed that the eley club seemed to hit a wall at about 175. Yes we did have disgusting wind, it was cool and overcast. But when i changed to another round in a very comparable accuracy stand point the heavier faster round was much easier to contact with. No my findings are not exact, but was checking if others have found comparable results.
 
Here is some chrony data I got out of my 16" MTR last week.

Eley Club

Batch # 3117-30444

1.15 gr unknown powder
41 gr bullet

LO 1080
HI 1113
AV 1098
ES 32.59
SD 10.48

1088
1096
1100
1113
1101
1112
1088
1098
1080
1104
 
The ROC said:
Here is some chrony data I got out of my 16" MTR last week.

Eley Club

Batch # 3117-30444

1.15 gr unknown powder
41 gr bullet

LO 1080
HI 1113
AV 1098
ES 32.59
SD 10.48

1088
1096
1100
1113
1101
1112
1088
1098
1080
1104
Click to expand...

Same batch as i have, the numbers are not bad
 
scuba52 said:
Of course, but with todays technology we are using this round out to 300 consistently, not incredibly accurate like centre fire but with the right combination 300m is very doable on a 2/3 ipsc. The 22lr steel is getting very competitive with prs shooters and it is a great way to make the new shooters comfortable at a match, cheaper start. I think the ammo manufacturers are seeing this and the hv ammo will become more consistent, heavier projectiles and ammo ment to push the limits of the lowly little round.
My only intention of this thread was to see if guys have a round that performs better at range, i just noticed that the eley club seemed to hit a wall at about 175. Yes we did have disgusting wind, it was cool and overcast. But when i changed to another round in a very comparable accuracy stand point the heavier faster round was much easier to contact with. No my findings are not exact, but was checking if others have found comparable results.
Click to expand...

I haven't shot past 200y, but I'll post some 200 yard targets where I shot 50 at one aim point. Shooting the whole box really lets you know what you can expect out of the ammo, and for sure if the steel targets are sized appropriately, you'll be able to hit them. 22 ammo is doing really well to maintain a 4"x4" group at 200, cheaper offerings may give a good cluster of many rounds, but there will be several strays in the box. You'll see what I mean. MV consistency is king. Lapua Polar Biathlon did really well for me.



BBM HV, made by RWS, not a bad round but you see those strays pop up. At double the ES of Lapua Polar, that's not surprising. For $4.85 a box, I'm happy with it. I'm going to try using it for Silhouette shooting this season.

 
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