Long distance 22 ammo
- Thread starter scuba52
- Start date
200 yards, like I stated in the first line of my post.
Yeah, it's been a pretty good brick of ammo for me. SK Biathlon isn't too far behind it, and half the price. You can see it's less "clustered" and more spread out, so less consistent MV, but you'll smack 8" steel all day with it.
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200 yards, like I stated in the first line of my post.
Yeah, it's been a pretty good brick of ammo for me. SK Biathlon isn't too far behind it, and half the price. You can see it's less "clustered" and more spread out, so less consistent MV, but you'll smack 8" steel all day with it.
sorry i read it wrong i guess. thought you shared photos from a different shoot and were saying youd post more at 200 at a later date. that is seriously impressive consistency.
As noted above, .22LR is not designed for long range shooting, with 50 yards/meters being the distance in most international target competitions.
Even better ammo than SK+ will produce ever larger groups at distances beyond 100 yards. In fact, a general rule of thumb might be that when distance doubles, group size triples. In other words, one inch groups at 100 yards are typically three at 200. That is what some long distance shooters refer to as the "half-third rule for rimfire".
How far would you go to achieve optimum accuracy from your rifle and ammo combo at long and ultra long range? Would you weight and sort each round to control velocity variation?
Interesting reading if you haven't already:
https://sites.google.com/site/thelongrangerimfireclub/home/longrange-rimfire-ballistics
Unleash the OCD and get the digital scale out....
Interesting reading if you haven't already:
https://sites.google.com/site/thelongrangerimfireclub/home/longrange-rimfire-ballistics
Unleash the OCD and get the digital scale out....
Personally I always do my testing with a chronograph. In my opinion we need to keep a log of how different ammo groups on target as well as velocity.
I think with 22LR, there is always going to be a few outliers from time to time, and you can either use ammo with the fewest outliers or find a way to identify them before hand as suggested above.
Keep in mind that 22LR is highly sensitive to the temperatures at the time of your testing. You may find ammo that works well in the summer is not what works well in the winter and vise versa.
Don't look for perfection, look for statistical consistency.
I would rather have consistent velocity than best short range accuracy, because good at 50 yards could be 3 feet of vertical at 300.
Consistent velocity will generally rule at extended ranges.
Also, since the 22LR is so sensitive to wind, don't be too quick to judge performance if wind conditions are tricky on the day of testing. Test again and again side by side with competitive ammo and look for what most consistently beats out the other ammo you are considering. Prove it out again and again over multiple days.
If it's accurate at 100 yards and has an ES of less than 20 FPS over 10 rounds strings, then you are in the ball park.
Also keep in mind that the 22LR is finicky about ammo changes and it may take 100 rounds or more to get the barrel to adjust to new ammo. So with that in mind, don't think you can shoot 10 rounds of one ammo then 10 rounds of another and switch back and fourth like that.
More like shoot a box or two of one ammo compared to a box or two of another.
One more thing... Parallax… Make sure that you actually understand how to eliminate parallax... Google it... So often I see guys at the range that shoot bad groups and when I check their parallax, it's way off. Don't confuse parallax with focus.
Parallax <> Focus
I think with 22LR, there is always going to be a few outliers from time to time, and you can either use ammo with the fewest outliers or find a way to identify them before hand as suggested above.
Keep in mind that 22LR is highly sensitive to the temperatures at the time of your testing. You may find ammo that works well in the summer is not what works well in the winter and vise versa.
Don't look for perfection, look for statistical consistency.
I would rather have consistent velocity than best short range accuracy, because good at 50 yards could be 3 feet of vertical at 300.
Consistent velocity will generally rule at extended ranges.
Also, since the 22LR is so sensitive to wind, don't be too quick to judge performance if wind conditions are tricky on the day of testing. Test again and again side by side with competitive ammo and look for what most consistently beats out the other ammo you are considering. Prove it out again and again over multiple days.
If it's accurate at 100 yards and has an ES of less than 20 FPS over 10 rounds strings, then you are in the ball park.
Also keep in mind that the 22LR is finicky about ammo changes and it may take 100 rounds or more to get the barrel to adjust to new ammo. So with that in mind, don't think you can shoot 10 rounds of one ammo then 10 rounds of another and switch back and fourth like that.
More like shoot a box or two of one ammo compared to a box or two of another.
One more thing... Parallax… Make sure that you actually understand how to eliminate parallax... Google it... So often I see guys at the range that shoot bad groups and when I check their parallax, it's way off. Don't confuse parallax with focus.
Parallax <> Focus
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I usually try to do my testing at 200 after 50 and 100 to see if it is suitable for my plans, the vertical really shows its ugly head at 200. Unfortunately my 200 yard range is closed 3 days a week and i could not verify. Conditions were bad with wind and cool temps, but most of my testing was in cool weather.
My point with wind is that if one round carries more energy down range at a higher velocity it should give you more consistent hits. Yes i know that standard velocity ammo is more accurate short range, not arguing that. But what about the 1200 to 1250 fps ammo, not recomending going crazy but if you can flirt that line with a good product is it worth a) carrying 2 different products or b) make the switch to a round that willgive you a 3/4 group at 50 but carry better consistency down range.
You cant, you could measure rim thickness but who has that time. Realistically if i can maintain the rule of 3 that grauhnan mentioned to 300 i would be good. From what i saw last weekend i did not have this. When we got to 200 and beyond it went all over the place. Could spot splash and adjust just to repeat and be completely wrong again
You can flirt with the transonic velocity, but keep in mind that the turbulent effects of the "transonic barrier" is not exactly at the speed of sound... There is a plus or minus range so accuracy will suffer anywhere close to the speed of sound.
Also keep in mind that the speed of sound changes depending on atmospheric pressure, altitude and I'm not sure but probably temperature and humidity.
So if you get too close to the speed of sound, you could have good results one day when the actual speed of sound is higher that day and then less acceptable results on days when the speed of sound is lower.
Yes velocity helps but in the case of rim fire... consistent velocity is more important than high velocity, particularly since we are only talking about less than 200 FPS between slowest and fastest rounds that you might consider.
Between 1100 FPS and 1200 FPS (G1 BC .150) the difference in drop in MOA at 300 yards is about 34.9 vs 38.7 or a difference of 3.8 MOA.. that's certainly something you want to keep in mind... but less of a factor than wind... since you can dial for the distance.
In terms of wind the difference for a 10 MPH cross wind between 1100 and 1200 FPS at 300 yards is about 10.3 MOA vs 11.5 MOA... or a difference of 1.2 MOA.. That's not so much.. it's something, but that's only if the wind is 10 MPH and a full value wind.
If wind is only 5 MPH and coming from 1 o'clock then these windage numbers are divided by 4... so less of a factor. Now we are talking in the range of 0.25 MOA, or 1 click on your scope, which is all but meaningless.
So you can reach for the perfect windy weather round, and make accuracy concessions, or look for a great calm weather round and hope the weather is calm when you use it... or possibly find one of each.
I'm probably a little optimistic about the 0.15 BC … it's probably closer to 0.114 now that I think about it... but you get the idea.
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Yeah i believe eley states .14 for all of their ammo, i might also check some lapua who claim .17 bc. Have some playing to do which is a good thing. Thanks for the replies. Will do some testing and maybe do some posting for others info.
There is no perferct solution when you are outside design, but what is the fun in not pushing boundaries
There is no perferct solution when you are outside design, but what is the fun in not pushing boundaries
Do you mean checking parallax on a fixed parallax scope?
I assumed since we are talking about accuracy, that the scope is not the weak link.
Even Bushnell AR Optics scopes have adjustable parallax and they are cheap enough for a 22.
Scopes can only be parallax free at one distance, so if you don't have adjustable parallax and are not shooting at that distance then try this...
If you don't have adjustable parallax, I would suggest extending your head back just a little until the field of view starts to get hazy around the outer edges and move your head position so that haze is well centered.
Even Bushnell AR Optics scopes have adjustable parallax and they are cheap enough for a 22.
Scopes can only be parallax free at one distance, so if you don't have adjustable parallax and are not shooting at that distance then try this...
If you don't have adjustable parallax, I would suggest extending your head back just a little until the field of view starts to get hazy around the outer edges and move your head position so that haze is well centered.
No , that's why manufacturers advise to set the parallax against a plain background(cloudless sky or a nondescript backboard) Ideally , if adjusted properly they should be parallax free at any distance. Yes , some scopes are factory adjusted to be parallax free at a given distance but the oculars are still adjustable for the individual user. The adjustable objective or more recently the adjustable focus with the third turret adjusts the image focus for distance .
Think of the measurement discrepencies that might occur if an engineer's level or theodolite had to be parallax adjusted for every distance that was measured. Once parallax is adjusted ,it's done.
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The ocular adjustment is for focussing the reticle. It doesn't do anything for adjusting for parallax or focussing on something downrange. Scopes without adjustable objectives (AO) or side focus (SF) have their parallax adjusted for a single distance -- that is to say it is parallax-free and in focus at that distance. Scopes with AO or SF can be adjusted so that they are parallax-free and in focus at any distance at and beyond their minimum distance. With lower magnification scopes, things do not "appear" to be out of focus at virtually any distance, but as soon as magnification is increased that changes.
Word. Even the supposedly "fixed parallax" factory set scope can have it's parallax adjusted by removing the front ring to expose the slots for inserting a tool to turn the objective lens.
