well if they can handle the 454 casull on a revolver not a problem for most of the calibers on rifle. but vortex can de different for sure.
Long Eye Relief/Scout Fixed 4x Recomendations?
- Thread starter B
- Start date
well if they can handle the 454 casull on a revolver not a problem for most of the calibers on rifle. but vortex can de different for sure.
Anyone have opinions on which to buy? Price is essentially the same. I like the reticle on the Burris a bit more but I have never owned one of their optics before. I doubt the extra magnification will do me much good at the sub-250m I will ever take a shot at. My 240s are dropping pretty fast by then despite having plenty of energy left.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Over the years, I've mostly owned Leupold, but that's probably because that's what my father/uncle/their friends used... So I went with it and have been happy. A few Burris somehow made their way on rifle, nothing to report.
Looking at the specs, if it was for me, I'd probably go for the Leupold, as it got the widest FOV (and I like to have has much FOV as possible)
- Leupold FOV (1.5-4x) @ 100Y: 41.7' to 17.3'
- Burris FOV (2-7x) @ 100Y: 23' to 8'
Looking at the specs, if it was for me, I'd probably go for the Leupold, as it got the widest FOV (and I like to have has much FOV as possible)
- Leupold FOV (1.5-4x) @ 100Y: 41.7' to 17.3'
- Burris FOV (2-7x) @ 100Y: 23' to 8'
I got impatient and ordered the Burris. It seems the Leupold only has 0.9" of eye relief? I may order the Leupold too to compare since the difference in FOV is pretty big to say the least. My experience with Scout setups is pretty thin so I am definitely learning here. I remember why I stuck to irons so stubbornly for so long...
- Location
- Western Manitoba
My impression about Scout - after 40 plus years using various conventional scopes on various rifles - what you see is very small - not sure there is any specific advantage to the Scout set-up - I had to try it to see for myself - I think main thing would be able to load up magazine with charger - not possible on this Savage version - have to remove the magazine from this rifle to re-fill it - although does maintain decent one hand carry possibility - which is as much about the flush bottom magazine as the scope's positioning. If one is using detachable magazines, the Scout scope positioning becomes really questionable for me - pretty sure that I would be just as fast onto a target with a "normal" positioned scope. But the Scout thing is "different", that is for sure!!!
The only lever action rifle that I own is a Winchester Model 94 in 30-30 - I installed rear aperture sights on it - removed that barrel mounted rear sight and installed a "blank" plate in it's place. Seems to me to be entirely adequate for a 30-30's effective range.
The only lever action rifle that I own is a Winchester Model 94 in 30-30 - I installed rear aperture sights on it - removed that barrel mounted rear sight and installed a "blank" plate in it's place. Seems to me to be entirely adequate for a 30-30's effective range.
I'm not a fan of the scout rifles I have used in the past, which really is just the Steyr .308. Unfortunately I can't find an aperture sight for my R92s, it's out of stock everywhere that will ship to me and the EE has been a busy as well.
I have a Skinner aperture for the .357 R92 I have but I would prefer it mounted on the rear of the rifle. The Buckhorn sights they come with are ok but again, I may need to reach out with the rifle a bit and some magnification will be useful.
I have a Skinner aperture for the .357 R92 I have but I would prefer it mounted on the rear of the rifle. The Buckhorn sights they come with are ok but again, I may need to reach out with the rifle a bit and some magnification will be useful.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Perhaps note how much higher that red-dot is, than the top of a rear iron sight on barrel - I think the stocks on the Win 94 about perfect for iron sight use? If the line-of-sight gets raised, then would require similar raise to the rifle's comb height, or perhaps "chin weld", or "side of jaw weld", instead of "cheek weld". What I see as advantage of rear aperture sight - is similar or same line-of-sight as with the barrel mounted rear sight. Likely what one gets used to - in the end, it is the holes on target that count - either they are where you want them, or they are not. You can see the line-of-sight versus comb height thing on many mil-surp rifles - Mauser, Lee Enfield, Enfield - a "scope" sounds like a good idea, except typical comb height is set up for the lower iron sights, that the rifle was made with.
The scout scope has had its day and its essentially passed. Most people who have used scout scopes will tell you that the key features are having a fast aiming (both eye open capable) optic whilst maintaining good peripheral view outside of the small ocular. Most with adjustable versions also tend to keep it in the 2-3x range such that a fixed power would have probably served them better in the first place (being lighter weight and simpler). In fact Leupold doesn't even make scout scopes (FX or VX) anymore to my knowledge.
Scout scopes can be used to good effect regardless and on a lever gun, it makes some sense. However, more modern (micro/pistol) red dots can be mounted on many platforms that often serve better for fast target acquisition requirements. If adjustable magnification is an absolute requirement, LPVOs offer a strong alternative, generally with a forgiving eye box when used correctly.
(I do have one of the now somewhat unobtainium Leupold FX-II 2.5 IERs but it remains in the box to be frank.)
Scout scopes can be used to good effect regardless and on a lever gun, it makes some sense. However, more modern (micro/pistol) red dots can be mounted on many platforms that often serve better for fast target acquisition requirements. If adjustable magnification is an absolute requirement, LPVOs offer a strong alternative, generally with a forgiving eye box when used correctly.
(I do have one of the now somewhat unobtainium Leupold FX-II 2.5 IERs but it remains in the box to be frank.)
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^I can agree with that. My experience is limited as I mentioned but I wasn't really impressed with the Steyr scout I played with. It's supposed to be among the best in that category and it was pretty "meh" in my opinion.
Butcherbill
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Big fan of the scout rifle concept, has a lot of features that I already prefer in a practical/hunting rifle, not a fan of the scout scope though. I prefer a full length rail with an integrated rear peep and a 2-7x32 in QD rings with lots of eye relief or a red dot, I don’t have a problem loosing stripper clip use as I’ll have multiple mags for it anyway. Lpvo mounted over the action is more to my liking in use and looks than a forward mounted scope and a front heavy balance, forward mounted rds is fine.
I doubt I will notice the weight of a micro red dot even with the rail. Once upon a time I had a 18.5" barreled M-305 set up with a scout rail. Never did scope it with anything that had magnification but it worked well enough. Was nice not having to worry about brass hitting the optic or mount.
Butcherbill
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I like scout rifles and scout scopes, but I also have regular scopes and usually red dots also ready to go in QD rings. My Steyr Scout wears its Leupold 2.5x Scout Scope mounted just forward of the ejection port just like it always did, and I can use it well after years of practice with it, but it's become more of a nostalgia thing for me than anything else.
With traditional scopes mounted on typical rifles, there are still many cases where a specific scope won't work properly on a specific rifle for a specific shooter. Slight differences in eye relief, available ring-mounting locations, variable spacing of free tube on scopes, and especially different shooter builds and stances all factor in; some scopes and rifles are just perfect for some people, and some...aren't...
When you start dealing with scout scopes and pistol scopes, the problem is magnified ten-fold. Many pistol scopes have too much eye relief to allow mounting them on many scout-type rails; they simply need to be positioned too far forward of where the rail ends on many rifles. Conversely, many so-called scout scopes have so little eye relief that they can't actually be placed forward of the ejection port, where a scout scope is "supposed" to sit, but that's just semantics. Scout scopes with shorter eye relief work great on things like leverguns or hammer-equipped singleshots and/or muzzleloaders, where they can be mounted just forward of the hammer, nice and low on the action while still affording a big field of view.
Trying to divide them up into categories of scout scope vs. pistol scope is tough because there is so much variation from maker to maker and even from model to model within the same maker's line-up. There are also scopes designated for shotgun use, which usually have a bit more eye relief than typical rifle scopes but less than actual scout scopes.
It gets funny when you start to read people complaining that their scout scopes give them so little field of view. The scope is way out there in front of you, forcing you to look through it at what is then a very narrow field of view...and when that image is magnified 2 or 3 or 4 times, the field of view will inevitably get smaller and smaller as the magnification increases.
There are simply too many variables for anyone else to tell you up front what will work for you. Prepare to buy/borrow/try a few set-ups before you find the "right" one. And then...prepare for your ideas regarding perfection to gradually be modified the longer you play with the scout concept. It's best to have 5 or 6 scout-ish rifles on hand at all times; that way, almost any scope you buy will work on at least one of them...
With traditional scopes mounted on typical rifles, there are still many cases where a specific scope won't work properly on a specific rifle for a specific shooter. Slight differences in eye relief, available ring-mounting locations, variable spacing of free tube on scopes, and especially different shooter builds and stances all factor in; some scopes and rifles are just perfect for some people, and some...aren't...
When you start dealing with scout scopes and pistol scopes, the problem is magnified ten-fold. Many pistol scopes have too much eye relief to allow mounting them on many scout-type rails; they simply need to be positioned too far forward of where the rail ends on many rifles. Conversely, many so-called scout scopes have so little eye relief that they can't actually be placed forward of the ejection port, where a scout scope is "supposed" to sit, but that's just semantics. Scout scopes with shorter eye relief work great on things like leverguns or hammer-equipped singleshots and/or muzzleloaders, where they can be mounted just forward of the hammer, nice and low on the action while still affording a big field of view.
Trying to divide them up into categories of scout scope vs. pistol scope is tough because there is so much variation from maker to maker and even from model to model within the same maker's line-up. There are also scopes designated for shotgun use, which usually have a bit more eye relief than typical rifle scopes but less than actual scout scopes.
It gets funny when you start to read people complaining that their scout scopes give them so little field of view. The scope is way out there in front of you, forcing you to look through it at what is then a very narrow field of view...and when that image is magnified 2 or 3 or 4 times, the field of view will inevitably get smaller and smaller as the magnification increases.
There are simply too many variables for anyone else to tell you up front what will work for you. Prepare to buy/borrow/try a few set-ups before you find the "right" one. And then...prepare for your ideas regarding perfection to gradually be modified the longer you play with the scout concept. It's best to have 5 or 6 scout-ish rifles on hand at all times; that way, almost any scope you buy will work on at least one of them...
Forgot to mention: I have a Weaver 4x scout scope on an old Savage MkII .22lr bolt gun; kind of a low-priced scout plinker/trainer. That little scope would probably suit the OP based upon the parameters laid out...but, again, you never know for sure until you try.
I can't recall where I got that scope; pretty sure I bought it brand new something like 15 years ago, had never heard of at the time and don't think I've seen one for sale since. I love it! It's been on a number of assorted rifles over the years, hasn't been babied or coddled, and still holds zero perfectly and tracked very nicely the last time I made adjustments on it. It survived several hundred rounds of shotgun slugs one year, and at least as many .308 and .45-70 rounds on other guns. For me, 4x is just slightly too much power for a fixed scout scope for all-around hunting use, but on the .22 where it lives now it's perfect.
I can't recall where I got that scope; pretty sure I bought it brand new something like 15 years ago, had never heard of at the time and don't think I've seen one for sale since. I love it! It's been on a number of assorted rifles over the years, hasn't been babied or coddled, and still holds zero perfectly and tracked very nicely the last time I made adjustments on it. It survived several hundred rounds of shotgun slugs one year, and at least as many .308 and .45-70 rounds on other guns. For me, 4x is just slightly too much power for a fixed scout scope for all-around hunting use, but on the .22 where it lives now it's perfect.
If anyone cares I didn't like the Burris enough to keep it around. I am putting a Holosun Red Dot on the rifle and going from there. Ironically with all the mention of the Steyr Scout, Garand Thumb just released a video on it.
https://youtu.be/XJi-6eP-QwQ?feature=shared
I apparently suck at embedding.
https://youtu.be/XJi-6eP-QwQ?feature=shared
I apparently suck at embedding.
That Mr. Thumb character seems to be upset because the Scout is not as good a sniper rifle as a real sniper rifle. Well, duh! And he keeps stating that the Scout...a lightweight, handy .308 bolt gun with a low-power scope...is a very specialized niche rifle, when I am pretty certain that any user of the gun would consider it the exact opposite; it's intended to be a very non-specialized rifle for general-purpose use.
Scout scopes are definitely a niche thing, but like anything else they have their strengths and weaknesses, and the Steyr doesn't force you to use one. A built-in bipod is better than no bipod, but of course it will have its limits compared to much heavier add-on bipods and it is completely non-obtrusive if you choose not to deploy it. Too many sling options...too confusing! The safety has a button on it; I'm frightened.
He didn't even notice or mention little things like the two-position magazine, the built-in rail under the fore-end, the fold-down position of the bolt when on "super-safe"; none of them is required to be used, but they are all there, just waiting to stress him out.
"It's really lightweight...and has a terrific trigger...and a super-smooth bolt...and all these sling-mounting positions...and it's super-handy...and I can shoot it well...I HATE IT!"
Scout scopes are definitely a niche thing, but like anything else they have their strengths and weaknesses, and the Steyr doesn't force you to use one. A built-in bipod is better than no bipod, but of course it will have its limits compared to much heavier add-on bipods and it is completely non-obtrusive if you choose not to deploy it. Too many sling options...too confusing! The safety has a button on it; I'm frightened.
He didn't even notice or mention little things like the two-position magazine, the built-in rail under the fore-end, the fold-down position of the bolt when on "super-safe"; none of them is required to be used, but they are all there, just waiting to stress him out.
"It's really lightweight...and has a terrific trigger...and a super-smooth bolt...and all these sling-mounting positions...and it's super-handy...and I can shoot it well...I HATE IT!"
