Long Range Hunting Rifle + Calibre?

D

-DC-

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I've done tons of reading on numerous websites all with conflicting information. Go figure, this is the internet. :rolleyes: So, I’m here to ask your opinions. I am fairly new to guns and hunting, and I am always lent a gun to use. Now I need my own.

This rifle will be used mostly for hunting, but I would like to get into long range shooting out to 1000 yards. Not competitively, just for fun. It will mostly be used on Deer and coyotes from 100-400 yards, although with time and serious practice I would like to be able to take game from further distances humanely. It will also need to take down at distance the odd Moose, elk, goat, etc.

I hear the .270 will work
I've been told to buy a 30-06
I've heard good things about the .308
Yet I like the sounds of the 7RM. Flat shooting, etc.

I don't know much about the energy at long ranges in these calibres. Should I be looking outside these calibres? 300WM seems like overkill to me or deer, however its cheap to shoot. What about 7WSM? I won't be firing off thousands of bullets each year, so its not a big issue on price, lets just not hit $100’s a box!! Also, I have thought about potentially getting into reloading at a later date. For now, gear comes first.

My other debate is which rifle to purchase. I like quality, something that will last, and is going to be reliable every time I pull the trigger. Price is not of a huge concern however I would like to keep the price down. I’ve been thinking of holding back and buying a Tikka T3 SS Lite or SS Varmint in .270, then later purchasing a 300wm, but feel I would be happier with the Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic or Finnlight. The rifle needs to be lightweight for field carry. Any other suggestions?

Last but not least I need glass. Is the Leupold VX-3L CDS a good choice? Or should I go with something like Leupolds Mark4 LR or a NightForce? Does anyone use a Leupold CDS? Also, will 3-9 or 4.5-14 be of enough power to reach out to 1000 yards, yet not annoying if shooting Game at 100yards?

My main concern is choosing the right calibre for me. Please help, my mind is going crazy with all these first time buying decisions. I am 22, and have many other future expenses to worry about, so another gun likely won't happen for a few years. I preferably want something that will do it all or close too it.

If any, what other decisions may I later make that affects what I choose right now?

Thanks for your time,

Dave
 
Hey DC
In my opinion, it's kind of hard to find one caliber that can "do it all". Espicially when one has aspirations of the 1000 yard mark.
The .270 and 30-06 are both excellent hunting rounds, but long range rounds they are not. I wouldn't really suggest a magnum as a first rifle, A: because it is really hard for a novice shooter to learn proper technique(I'm sure you can already shoot, but remember, you want to hit that 1k mark someday) and B: Feeding a magnum is expensive. Once you really get into shooting(and you will, this is a very addicting hobby) you will find out that the cost of buying the rifle is nothing campared to what it costs to feed the bloddy things. Especially when you start accumulating a collection.
The .308 would be my pick.
-You can get almost any rifle in .308, so the choice is yours
-Ammo is readily available EVERYWHERE! And the options are almost endless, especially when you hit the reloading bench.
-It has the ballistic capability to get you to 1000 yards while staying supersonic.
-With heavier lead she'll work on everything from elk down. I would'nt want to use it on a moose at longer range but at shorter ranges why not. I don't go after moose so I can't really spectulate on that one.

As for the rifle, a light weight, light barrel, sporter rifle is great for carrying through the bush and hopefully accurate to "minute-of-lung" accuracy out to 500 yards but it really isn't made for anything more than that. Deffinately not a 1000 yards. I cant comment much on the rifles you listed because i'm a Remington and Savage fan(thats right, I like Chevy and Ford) and I hate light rifles. As for glass, go with the best that money can afford.
 
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Welcome to CGN!

The .270, .280, and .30/06 are quite capable of taking coyote sized game to a quarter mile, as is the .22-250, the .243, the various 6.5s, and the .308. But if you ever entertain the idea of taking big game at very long range you will have to switch to a big boomer that has the bullet mass and long range velocity to ensure a killing blow.

Shooting paper out to 1000 is within the capability of a mild cartridge provided that your rifle and ammunition combination is sufficiently accurate at long range and that your scope is adjustable for roughly 30 minutes of elevation above the 100 yard zero or is configured with multiple aiming points which make up for its lack of elevation adjustment. If you don't handload you will find it expensive and difficult to find factory ammo that is up to the task, although Hirsh Precision is a good place to start looking. Your cartridge choice should then be limited to those that you can purchase factory match ammo for. Despite the apparent ballistic advantage of the big bore magnum rounds, their disadvantages of recoil, blast, and cost far out weight their potential unless you are already a recoil hardened, well healed shooter. Getting good at long range shooting requires a large expenditure of time and ammunition.

The way I see it, you have a choice of getting a factory varmint/target rifle or going to a custom or semi-custom build. If you are on a budget either the Remington or Savage platform provide the best value and have the most in the way of aftermarket options if you wish to improve the rifle over time with a better stock, trigger, etc. If your pockets are deep enough for a full blown custom rig, the sky is the limit, but don't loose sight of what the rifle is for. Start on the right foot by purchasing good ammunition and save your brass for when you can reload. Get as much reading material about long range shooting, loading, and ballistics as you can manage. Don't forget to enjoy the trip, having fun is the whole point.
 
-DC- said:
My main concern is choosing the right calibre for me. Please help, my mind is going crazy with all these first time buying decisions. I am 22, and have many other future expenses to worry about, so another gun likely won't happen for a few years. I preferably want something that will do it all or close too it.


Dave
Click to expand...

is this your first hunting rifle? honestly, it's going to be pretty hard to get a 1000yrd capable hunting rifle on a budget..... and then think of the cost of the practice time to develop the skill you would need to accomplish it ethically...
 
So many of the questions are simply relying on the experience of many with a huge number of variations. I bought my first hunting rifle at 21, a Remington 700 in .30-06, and I still have it. I have probably had at least 5 different scopes, in one case a 10X Leopold with a 1 minute dot for Centre fire Silhouette. You have to start someplace and the field of choices is huge. A good mentor might save you a lot of money and indecision but if your pockets are not as deep as his it may not be as enjoyable as you imagine. Picking a rifle, calibre, scope or knife (job, wife, dog, car, truck, house, etc) for someone else is too personal and nigh on impossible. Time will have you changing objectives, interests, and perceptions. Do not use the "POLL" route!!! Many will look at my signature and wonder "Where did this guy go wrong?" I would have to agree with them.
 
Your instincts with the 7mmRM serve you well.

With the new, slow burning powders and new, heavy, high BC bullets you can stabilize heavy bullets that are very accurate and shoot flat and fast and have more than enough take down energy out to 1000 yards. Mind you I would recommend a good muzzle break so you can spot your shots. Also you most likely would have to reload to get the desired performance.

The 30 cals are proven to be good long distance shooters but do not have the high BC properties that the 7mm have now.

As with all long distance the ethics have to be considered. It takes more practice and skill than the right caliber. Being able to make that cold bore shot out to 600-1000 yards takes a lot of practice and is not cheap.

I wanted to try it this year but have not had near enough practice so I will am going to shoot more next year and then try again next season. The last thing I want to do is shoot a deer in the leg or something and have to way of tracking it down.

Long distance hunting is a 2 man game too. You need a spotter with good optics to help spot shots and watch a hit animal to see where it runs and hopefully where it lands.

Long distance gopher shooting has less strings attached. I have no moral convictions about wounding a gopher and leaving it to die in a field 600 yards from me to be picked clean by a magpie or another gopher.
 
DC,

1-400 yards with deer sized game - Just about anything will do it. Remember, NATO is killing deer-sized people with a 223. The secret is to hit it in the right spot. You can hedge your chances of success by NOT buying something that will cause you to flinch. I vote against the magnums.

The second issue is accuracy. It is a fact of life that huntuing rifles shooting hunting ammo group about 1" + at 100M under perfect conditions. Shooting off-hand will degrade your chances of an accurate shot.

Here is my prescription for a good 100 -1000M rifle plinking rifle and one capable of killing any game in Canada if you shoot within a humane killing range.

Tikka T3 in 6.5X55.
 
wheels said:
my Amax & Berger 30 cal loads have a .648 & .631 BC respectively.
Click to expand...

Very true. A 30-06 or 308 would have a hard time pushing the 210 and keeping up with the 162 Amax or 168 Berger in 7mm. The same weight in 30 cal goes down to .450-.470 on a 30 cal.

Too get enough steam outta the 210 g you would need to be shooting a 300RUM or a 300WM at the very least. Felt recoil would increase significantly. Plus powder usage and so forth so on. But it is an great option for those that are in love with the harder hitting 30 cal bullets.

Does anyone use the 210g in a 308? I am interested all of the sudden. I imagine the performance would pretty much stop at 800 yards.
 
2

I hate to say it but I think you would be better off purchasing a HUNTING rifle and a good scope for now and a long range target rifle later and better scope for later.

Your hunting rifle can be lightweight and accurate enough out to 400 yards for almost any shooting. Caliber is your choice or what ever is cheaper to shoot for now.

Long range rifle may require a higher magnification scope, heavy barrel and heavy stock, not very nice to carry around in the bush. Caliber is your choice again or you can keep both guns in the same caliber and save on reloading costs later.

Personally I did something similar to this and chose a Tikka T3 SS Varmint in 300WM topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40 AO TT. The rifle is only 1/2lbs heavier than most hunting rifles and it's really accurate. I've shot it out to 800 yards and I'm happy with it so far.

I also reload for everything I shoot except for the 22's so shooting costs are lower.
 
MagnumPeanut said:
Does anyone use the 210g in a 308? I am interested all of the sudden. I imagine the performance would pretty much stop at 800 yards.
Click to expand...

MontanaMarine on 24hrCampfire uses his 308 with 208gr bullets out to a mile....And I wouldn't want him shooting at me with it, even past a mile....I wouldn't like my odds.
 
DC
if you plan on taking anything bigger than a deer at distances out to 400-500 yards you should seriously consider a .30cal. Not that other smaller bullets wont work, a 180 gr 30cal will just do it better. If you don't mind the recoil, my favorite is the .300 weatherby magnum. Does everything a .308 win or .300 win mag will do just a little bit faster and flatter. And a weatherby vanguard will only cost you $500 brand new and i get sub moa groups with handloads. What every you decide just practice lots and you should be fine.
 
Ultimately, there are a pile of choices, but I recommend a 20 inch heavyish barreled 308 -- like an LTR to start. 308 is fairly cheap, with an abundance of info out there to help you as you start.

It will work well out to 400m on game like you say, and paper much further. As you build your skills, you can build whatever tickles your fancy, and pocketbook.

Oh, yeah scope. Assuming that you are going to be hiking this rifle during the hunts, keep the weight down. The NF 2.5-10 compacts are awesome. They will be a bit limiting when you punch paper outside of the 400m you are asking about. If you want more scope, Leupold makes a 4.5-14x40mm with target turrets and a mildot reticle.

Ultimately, being that you want something to work in the field, and at at the range, and on coyotes, and on deer, it will not be the specialized critter that some will recommend. It will start to look like the XM3 rifle.

I have been using a 308 LTR with various scopes for a number of years now for pretty much what you describe, and irrelevant of how the budget is extended, I can't figure how to better solve the problem. Longer barrel gets further out, but are noisy in the bush. Small diameter WSMs are great, but they chew barrel. 50mm nightforces rock if you can find a rest for the rifle. etc. thick diameter barrels let you shoot a bit longer in the summer, but suck to carry around. Thin barrels are awesome in the bush, but suck when shooting practice strings.
 
I would really advise against a 6.5x284, bad barrel life and more expensive than some magnums.
I really agree with what Notenough said, this is really a 2 rifle job. I would decide what is more important now; hunting or small groups on paper.
I also agree with the idea of the Rem 700 LTR. I own a couple and couldn't be happier for an accurate bush rifle. I personally use Millet scopes on most of my rifles. I have a few luepy's and a Bushnell 4200(great glass for the price) but they're a great bang for the buck. I've looked through NightForce and USO and S&M scopes and they deffinately are the cats a** but my pockets just arn't deep enough yet. Someday though...
 
-DC- said:
I've done tons of reading on numerous websites all with conflicting information. Go figure, this is the internet. :rolleyes: So, I’m here to ask your opinions. I am fairly new to guns and hunting, and I am always lent a gun to use. Now I need my own.

This rifle will be used mostly for hunting, but I would like to get into long range shooting out to 1000 yards. Not competitively, just for fun. It will mostly be used on Deer and coyotes from 100-400 yards, although with time and serious practice I would like to be able to take game from further distances humanely. It will also need to take down at distance the odd Moose, elk, goat, etc.

I hear the .270 will work
I've been told to buy a 30-06
I've heard good things about the .308
Yet I like the sounds of the 7RM. Flat shooting, etc.

I don't know much about the energy at long ranges in these calibres. Should I be looking outside these calibres? 300WM seems like overkill to me or deer, however its cheap to shoot. What about 7WSM? I won't be firing off thousands of bullets each year, so its not a big issue on price, lets just not hit $100’s a box!! Also, I have thought about potentially getting into reloading at a later date. For now, gear comes first.

My other debate is which rifle to purchase. I like quality, something that will last, and is going to be reliable every time I pull the trigger. Price is not of a huge concern however I would like to keep the price down. I’ve been thinking of holding back and buying a Tikka T3 SS Lite or SS Varmint in .270, then later purchasing a 300wm, but feel I would be happier with the Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic or Finnlight. The rifle needs to be lightweight for field carry. Any other suggestions?

Last but not least I need glass. Is the Leupold VX-3L CDS a good choice? Or should I go with something like Leupolds Mark4 LR or a NightForce? Does anyone use a Leupold CDS? Also, will 3-9 or 4.5-14 be of enough power to reach out to 1000 yards, yet not annoying if shooting Game at 100yards?

My main concern is choosing the right calibre for me. Please help, my mind is going crazy with all these first time buying decisions. I am 22, and have many other future expenses to worry about, so another gun likely won't happen for a few years. I preferably want something that will do it all or close too it.

If any, what other decisions may I later make that affects what I choose right now?

Thanks for your time,

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, You have picked in your line up the perfect combination. the sako finnlight 300 wm with a leupold mark 4 4.5-14 x 50 iwth mildot reticle. it will take down all big game out to 700m humanely and allow you to shoot 1000m accurately. Its a light hunting rifle and still shoots sub moa. I shoot sako trgs 22 & 42 too heavy for hunting but wonderful rifles. Your rifle will keep its value and so will the scope. There is a reason .308 and 300wm are used as sniper rifles its called accuray and lethality, something you need for hunting. the .308 is nice starter but if you can handle the 300wm right off the start you will have the only rifle you will EVER need. I use Nightforce optics also, find them more clear than Leupold for my eyes but you will pay more, again they don't lose their value. The Sako's finnlights are magnificent rifles. If the recoil gets to be too much have a good gunsmith put a muzzle break on it and you will be good to go. Opinion based on field experience, not reading magazines.

A 308 should only be used on game out to 400m.
 
I would buy a 300 Win or 7mm mag in a Rem Sendero, oops :eek: I have 300 Win mag in a Sendero for sale:D. My 7 Rem mag shoots consistintly under 3/4" which is good for the crappy set up I use. They are heavy but I think it helps by keeping the barrel steady, my expirence with a 300 in a sporter barrel are that they are brutal on the shoulder. I shot a 243 in a Finnlight and found there was recoil, I can't imagine shooting a 300 Win Mag in that set-up.:) :canadaFlag:
 
-DC- said:
My other debate is which rifle to purchase. I like quality, something that will last, and is going to be reliable every time I pull the trigger. Price is not of a huge concern however I would like to keep the price down. I’ve been thinking of holding back and buying a Tikka T3 SS Lite or SS Varmint in .270, then later purchasing a 300wm, but feel I would be happier with the Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic or Finnlight. The rifle needs to be lightweight for field carry. Any other suggestions?

If any, what other decisions may I later make that affects what I choose right now?

Thanks for your time,

Dave
Click to expand...

I think you find these articles to your liking and give you the base to build a super shooting LR rig for equal to/less then the factory rifle you are looking at.

http://www.mysticprecision.com/htm/rifle.php

I hope that you will be shooting ALOT from now until next hunting season. LR hunting puts alot of demands on you and your ability to field judge ambient conditions. Then put that bullet where it belongs. Gear alone WILL NOT get the job done.

F1 cars still have to be piloted by skilled drivers....

Practise, practise, practise, then practise somemore. This is hunting NOT target shooting. With the right gear and practise, you will know how far you can shoot.

Think seriously about reloading both from getting the most accuracy, consistency and precision out of your rifle BUT also dropping the costs of shooting so you can afford to shoot, and shoot, and shoot.

As for chamberings, if 400yds is your max distance on deer, pretty much ever modern standard cartridge will work. I have a 7-08 that will filled this role in my walkabout rifle. My LR/cut block rifle is in 7RM. both are Savages and use factory barrels.

With some handloading and proper set up/bedding, sub MOA is the norm. That is cold barrel, 1st shot accurate at the distances I intend to hunt.

The ability of game to take a pounding and keep on running is amazing. I feel that 7mm is the smallest cal I would use for LR hunting and I will only use 162gr and heavier bullets. This gives me the best ballistics I can shoot and still deliver a pretty hefty bullet.

The bigger bores and heavier bullets will definitely deliver a more substantive blow but you need to get into the 208/210gr VLD 30cals and 250gr/300gr 338's to achieve the same wind drift ballistics.

These bullets require a large case boomer and recoil will become a huge factor. That is why the 7mm works for me.

as to optics, I am very impressed with the new gen Sightrons. Optical clarity puts it ahead of scopes costing a whole lot more. Mechanicals have been dead on reliable in my scopes that I have tested. Low light is also excellent. I haven't tested how they handle rain but I am sure no worse then other products on the market.

Jerry
 
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