Long Range Hunting - see Page 16 for Riflechair addition

[zimbu]

They are also the type that make me grateful that Blaze Orange is not mandatory out here in BC...as I'd rather wear a fricken Gillie suit and hide from everyone then get scoped.

The camo I wear when hunting isn't to hide from game. It's to hide from the idiots that hunt with a rifle in one hand and a beer in the other, and shoot at anything that shakes the bushes. But of course, as long as they don't shoot at anything over 100yds they're more ethical than these guys. Right RIFLECHAIR?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4aqmbaGIo

RIFLECHAIR, while I'm sure you have the best of intentions, you seem to have a very messed up opinion of what ethics are. Unfortunately you are entitled to your opinion and fortunately, I am entitled to mine. As has been said many times over by many ethical hunters in this thread, ethics have nothing to do with what range you hunt/shoot at, and everything to do with the attitude, discipline, and concientiousness of the hunter. In my opinion, your attitude stinks and your narrow mindedness is most unwelcome. Perhaps your energies would be better spent over on poachersRus.com, instead of preaching to the chior.


It may comfort you to know that I hunt with a 105mm Howitzer and would never think of taking a shot on game farther than I can reasonably throw a grenade, just in case I wound it.

I will grant there ARE some people out there that are taking shots they shouldn't. Both at long AND short ranges. It boils down to whether 1 has competence with a rifle, or bow, or not. There are some "hunters" who should not take a shot even at point blank, but your "Big Brother" approach is frightening, this is not a Orwellian country , yet.

Thanks to narrow minded people like riflechair, we as a country are nearly there. Why do you think we have to register our rifles?


eth·ic
Pronunciation: \ˈe-thik\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek ēthikē, from ēthikos
Date: 14th century
1plural but sing or plural in constr : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a: a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values <the present-day materialistic ethic> <an old-fashioned work ethic> —often used in plural but singular or plural in construction <an elaborate ethics><Christian ethics> bplural but sing or plural in constr : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group <professional ethics> c: a guiding philosophy d: a consciousness of moral importance <forge a conservation ethic>
3plural : a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness) <debated the ethics of human cloning>

Rant mode makes it all better

"Sorry officer, I was in RANT MODE"

LMAO

 

[Dogleg]

Good question. I cannot decide if that deer I cleanly harvested in 2005, with a 30-30 carbine/peep sights,@260 yards was ethical either?

Depends, could you do it over and over again? It would be a short shot for most cartridges developed in the last century. 260 is a first class opportunity on the prairies. It's 160 yards past some hunters abilities, and a gimme to others.
For the sake of argument, I regard 300 and under as shortrange on deer sized animals. Target shooters seem to consider longrange as starting at 600. Everything in between must be midrange, but can you imagine a website called midrangehunting.com? How about a 100 page thread debateing the ethics of midrange shooting?

 

[oldfart]

For all the so called long rang shooters. Put an 8" paper plate up at 100 m if you can hit it consistantly free hand, you are a good shot, most cant. At 700 m if you are an expert have tatical knobs a good rest, a hit is possible, unless the animal decides to move as you squeeze the trigger. In my old age if I shoot anything I hope to give as humane death as possible.

 

[7.62mm]

Shoot within your means, and accept the consequences, that is the best we can do!

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depends how you look at it, we are now, as humans, at the top of the food chain, and quite comfortable in our position. We now have the opportunity to step aside ourselves, and contemplate, what is/not ethical. 100 years ago, our ancestors did NOT have this opportunity.

Can you imagine, looking at your starving family, and saying, NO, I will not take the shot, because I am uncomfortable, the distance is to long.

We live in a world of convenience, where we can go to the corner store, and pick up ready made food, without thinking about how it got there. And this is the ONLY reason that these ethics questions come up.

Do you think that the natives or settlers here had a qualm about pulling the trigger on a game animal, no matter the circumstances. Do you think they had time to practice, and calculate the drops at various distances, for the firearm they were using? Would you call them unethical for failing to get this data? Were our ancestors more unethical than us? Surely they didn't cleanly kill everything in their sights!

Our laws have laid down, what is or is not a legal hunt. FULL STOP

If it is uncomfortable for you, TOO BAD!

 

[Calum]

20 yards. Anything further is just a lack of stalking talent. Just ask Calum, another socialist pinko looking out for the greater good. Him and Riflechair are the only ones with qualified opinions. They both have the boyscout badges to prove it.

Please save your boyscout fetishes for another board.

Also the day you get to run into an angry logging company boss while on a hunt and be put in the position of defending the good hunters and keep the gates open because some ass hats decided to vandalize logging equipment, leave wounded animals to die, and take pot shots in the direction of employees then you can have a seat at the discussion table with the adults.

Until then, on your bike lad, go back to the airgun forum.

 

[DEZ]

Its all on skill level I'm a competitive Black Powder Shooter and shoot every week more than 100 rnds including hand gun . I also own target rifles I hesitate to use the word tactical . I have shot mule deer up to 500 yrds with my 300 ultra from a bi-pod using a range finder . In the river coulies where I hunt a 300yrd shot is common place they are vast . I also hunt gopers with a 223. with my range finder tactical scope and balistic program . If you are going to hunt long range then you need to practice it. with my 22lr and a tactical scope I shoot clay pidgons at 200yrds all winter just to practice .
But the people that see the big buck out of there range and do the hold over thing and let fly hoping to connect I think are the people that Rifle chair is talking about here. And I hear the stories to and sometimes they get lucky and drop that big buck and thats why they do it.
I saw two hunters open up on a mule deer at about 75yrds it took them 6rnds to hit it in the ass
so distance is nothing compared to skill level . An ethical hunter will not shoot beyond his skill level others will shoot at anything

 

[leverlover]

bear defence 2.0
some her just want to...
others are just off
couple are obviously !

yup bear defence 2.0

 

[canadaman30]

Long range hunting is to each their own, shooting skill (practice) and the ability to take long shots in the field is not for all. I do hate hearing 5 or 6 shots going off only to hear the animal was not found. Any person who takes a couple shots a year and go's out in the field taking pot shots at far out game has no respect for the animals.

 

[stubblejumper]

I was at the range today,and a guy was bragging about the moose he shot with his 270wsm at 1200meters last fall.I asked him what the bullet drop was at 1200 meters,and he had no idea.

 

[Eagleye]

I was at the range today,and a guy was bragging about the moose he shot with his 270wsm at 1200meters last fall.I asked him what the bullet drop was at 1200 meters,and he had no idea.

Stubble; Puts me in mind of a conversation I had while repairing a hunter's 4x4several years back. Louis: "Did you get your moose yet?" Me: No, not yet Louis, I have a draw that starts in a week or so." Louis: "I got mine a couple of days ago up the 400 road on that new slash. Had to take a long shot though." Me: "How far away was he?" Louis: "800 Yards" Me: "Wow! that is a long shot. What were you using for a rifle?" Louis: "My 300 Weatherby with 220 grain bullets, they really hit hard" Me: (insert dubious grin here) "Tell me Louis, how do you sight in your 300 Weatherby?" Louis: "I always sight it dead on at 300 Yards." Me: "That's what I do with my big 30's also. How high did you have to hold to hit that moose at 800 yards?" Louis: "Oh I just held dead on, the 300 Weatherby does not drop any between 300 & 800 yards!" When I heard that, I had to stifle myself, since I almost burst out laughing. But, I reasoned there was no point in arguing with this guy and getting him all stirred up by proving him an idiot, after all he was a customer! Many people out in the field have NO clue what distances are. They should limit their shots to possibly 150 yards, period. Eagleye.

 

[sealhunter]

As I read the thread, and the comradery amongst the "internet long shooters" I cant decide where I fit in...

I don't want to post that I shoot field mice at 600 yrds, or that I only take moose within 50 yrds...

I have a 30/30 Marlin that is my right hand extension for the past many years.. but haven't taken a whole lot of 260 yrd peepsight shots... perhaps one day Brutus, you and i can head to the range and you can watch the share joy as in my eyes as I watch you use the 30/30 (my fav cartridge) to hit pie plates at the 250 with a peepsight.

Long range shooting, or in fact shooting beyond 300 yrds is not as easy as some pretend it is on the intrawebs...

Now do I mean that it is hard, ... well no,, not if you are setup for it..
but if you don't have the rifle, bullets, optics, practice etc for the task at hand, you are unethical to pull the trigger.

 

[Brutus]

Depends, could you do it over and over again? It would be a short shot for most cartridges developed in the last century. 260 is a first class opportunity on the prairies. It's 160 yards past some hunters abilities, and a gimme to others.
For the sake of argument, I regard 300 and under as shortrange on deer sized animals. Target shooters seem to consider longrange as starting at 600. Everything in between must be midrange, but can you imagine a website called midrangehunting.com? How about a 100 page thread debateing the ethics of midrange shooting?

By the way I practiced plenty at offhand @ 200 yards months before the season opened. Silverback was my witness. I purposely, had a high sighted-in, point of aim with 150 grain silvertip ammunition. This was in boreal forest of northern Alberta, not on a prairie.The bullet drop was 14-16 inches and I struck the whitetail buck two inches left centre of his chest. Dead right there, with a single shot. It was eye opening to see such extensive damage that was done! I put the best hunting iron sights on an accurate carbine, and felt very confident with it.
I certainly could repeat this if I practiced now, as much as I did then. However, this season the bow will get a workout for deer and maybe, just maybe, moose.
Sealhunter, you and I have a sentimental attachment to this old cartridge, and we know its an adequate deerslayer, in the hands of the right person. All the `magic`is in pre-season practise. Which is nice to do with such a gentle on the shoulder, deer round.
Lately my .308 Wichita 1375 single shot, bolt action gets plenty of range time, and my PSE bow is next up, for big game hunting first.

 

[Eagleye]

Well, familiarity with a rifle sure helps being able to hit with it. We used to shoot a game called Rifleman's Rodeo in BC [Salmon Arm, Fraser Lake and Ashcroft] In this game we shot 5 targets, time limited, with a couple of running targets for S&G. The targets were life-size animals with scoring rings around the vital areas. The 10 ring on the goat was about 3" in diameter. At Fraser Lake, the goat was 300 yards out. We had a class in this game called "Frontier" Limitations were as follows: Lever action rifle [or carbine]with iron sights, (peep or open) chambered in a cartridge developed before the year 1900. The 30-30 was a shoe-in, so we used it almost exclusively. I saw that 300 yard goat dinged in the 10 ring many, many times with the 30-30 [did it myself numerous times] It is possible to get proficient with even a cartridge with a very curved trajectory. All it takes is lots of practice. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[sealhunter]

Now I'm not saying it isn't done, but in my experience with the 30/30 and with many hunters I know who use them, ...300 yrd shots are at the range.
This is not to say that there aren't some, but do you know many people taking 300 yrd shots with a 30/30 for hunting?

Just curious, cause I don't. In fact, each year meet fewer and fewer people who even shoot one,

 

[Woodsman]

Please save your boyscout fetishes for another board.

Also the day you get to run into an angry logging company boss while on a hunt and be put in the position of defending the good hunters and keep the gates open because some ass hats decided to vandalize logging equipment, leave wounded animals to die, and take pot shots in the direction of employees then you can have a seat at the discussion table with the adults.

Until then, on your bike lad, go back to the airgun forum.

First U.K. stalking courses to be able to hunt and now we need to be mediators with loggers to discuss long range shooting?

Lad? Airgun forum?

That "boyscout badge mentality" of yours is freaken hilarious!

 

[catnthehatt]

The BC Wildlife Federation has a Code of Ethics for Hunters:

1. Ethical hunters respect the animals we hunt, and, when we hunt we do so responsibly;
2. Ethical hunters are students of nature, learning as much as possible about the game pursued, its habitat, habits and life cycle;
3. Ethical hunters support the concept of “Fair Chase”;
4. Ethical hunters are skilled in the use of the tools of hunting. When we shoot, we do so accurately and safely;
5. Ethical Hunters are true conversationalists who believe in the sustainable use of natural resources. Our interest in wildlife and the environment includes non-game and endangered species.

When it comes to Taking the Shot an ethical hunter will ask the following questions:

1. Is it completely safe to take this shot?
2. Have I properly identified the species?
3. If yes, is it legal to shoot this species? (ie: a 6-point elk);
4. Do I have an opportunity for a good shot and a quick, clean kill?
5. If I shoot, can I recover the animal considering its location, the time of day and the time that may be needed to retrieve it?

If the answer to all of these questions is yes, then and only then will the hunter take the shot.




HUNTERS DON’T DO THAT. We want quick and clean kills and that’s the end of it.

I see nowhere in the bold here about distance.
I have also seen any shots botched inside 200 yards, are those hunters unethical because they missed or wounded an animal, even though some unseen obtisicle changed the bullet's path, or they made a bad trigger squeeze, etc?
What one person calls ethicvsl is not what another considers it.
i was labelled as "unethical" years ago because i laid out a bowhunter's silhouette course that ws considered "too dificult" for some.
I haven't talked to those people since, and refuse to have anything to do with anybody that throws the words "ethics" or "ethical" around like a tennis ball.
These are overused, misunderstood, PC type of woeds that people throw around to make people either upset or won over to someone else's point of view.
Rant mode off!
Cat

 

[casterpollox]

I let my emotions get away on me
Doesn't happen very often but occaissonally I have a short rant.

I am not talking about the experienced and confident hunter that understands the relationship between his gear and the conditions. Its the macho yobbo's I'm talking to. It might be old age catching up to me, but it seems to be dominated by new young hunters with way too confidence in themselves and the absence of experience.

I see them at the range and in the gun store regularly and I hear their hunting stories.
It gives me great cause for concern.

Perhaps it generational but the young folks today seem to have a risk taking culture that is not appropriate in the hunting grounds. 700 metre shots! Bah...

Oh, so now its the young guns that are the problem ?

No matter what the topic is, as soon as there's a problem with something its always the young people. Guys like you get on here an start rippin' others without a care. It's not just hunting...

Its the young people causing all of the car accidents with their super charged cars. Its the young people causing all of the environmental problems with their littering and their "who cares" attitude?

Get out from your cave and live a little. Meet a young person and learn something. I'm the youngest guy in my hunting party by far and while I learn a lot from those with more experience, you can bet they've learned a little from me as well because I'm willing to learn new things and I'm not stuck up on old practices. Don't let yourself be tied up with your old world thinking.

While I agree there needs to be some more ethics taught and learned throughout the hunting community... get over yourself and leave the young guns alone because I see many old foggies shooting off the hood of their truck because they "just don't have the legs that they used to".

After reading some of your follow up posts I must say... were you a linebacker in your younger days? Because you can back peddle better than anyone I've seen.

Your rant about how unethical long range hunting is... smells just as bad as the anti-hunting crowds complaints about hunting with a firearm. "If the animal can't have a gun then neither should you."

I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell them. F*** OFF. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean others can't. They can't plunge a knife into another body and you can't pull the trigger on a long range shot. Same thing. Some can and others can't. Those that can't pick the berries and clean the pots.

Oh, and by the way... RANT OFF. Now I can't be held accountable for my actions.

 

[jwstewart]

5. Ethical Hunters are true conversationalists

Yes sir, some Ethical Hunters seem to talk to much

 

[ENIGMATIC1]

here lets put this one to rest:

watch some videos everybody!

http://www.defensiveedge.net/Videos/video.htm

 

[Omega]

I do get tired of people who feel they have the right to force their values and ethics on others.