I shoot a 308 win, and killed an elk at 515yds, and a mule deer at 315yds last year. I have also killed a moose at 30yds with it, but wouldn't hesitate to take a shot within 500yds if everything was right. I like to kill animals with good shot placement, and a good expanding hunting bullet. I also don't like to ruin a lot of meat. If you like to kill by hydrostatic shock, shoot something that has lots of velocity 3000fps+, and hit the animal in the chest cavity. One of my hunting buds who is also a butcher, sent me a pic of a moose shoulder that was absolutely FUBAR after getting hit with a Berger 180vld out of a 300wsm. The whole shoulder was garbage with bullet shrapnel. Also, if you cant hit a 1 moa target consistently at the distance you are wanting to hunt at, don't shoot animals at that distance. A 1moa target at 400yds is 4"x4" to put that into perspective.
long range hunting
- Thread starter 6.5x55swm
- Start date
Totally agree! Last autumn I could of shot a prairie mule deer buck at about 400 yards;instead, I used the lay-of-the-land for a closer stalk and shot it at 60 yards.
https://imgur.com/a/YHVfvc0
Only people who have shot very little game, and darned few moose, would think that such a shot is smart. As others have pointed out, there are lots of very real reasons why such a circumstance should obviously be passed on, and anyone who has shot some moose will understand all of them. I would move off very quietly, come back the next morning before light, set up and call again. That's how I would hunt it.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Judgemental know-it-alls aside, if you're looking at extending your range on game it's hard to beat the 300 Winchester. Yes, it can be a kicker, but I think the current fad of stretching distance with marginal cartridges is fine if you're shooting steel, but false economy when you're shooting at game.
I bought a 300wm as my long range bear and moose rifle. Im good enough to shoot a moose passed 400 yards but where i hunt a shot that far is very unlikely unless i climbed a fire tower. Ive taken coyotes out along ways. Two over 700 yards and several over and around the 500 yard mark. Ive also shoot deer at 400 yards all with my 2506. All in open farm land shot from a prone position at a known range. My big game hunting i want to be within 50 yards. Closer if i can. Ive never shot a moose but have shot 7 bears. I like to be close and use 45/70 or 458wm or 12ga. If im going to be in or around an area thats more open ill pack my 300wm as well as another rifle. Some areas have been cut where i hunt and offer a 200 to 300 yard shot and although i could likely get closer the 300 wm gives me the option of alot more smack than my 2506. I doubt id take a shot passed 300 yards on a bear or moose but its nice to know i have the tool for the job.
My furthest shot on a bear was 164 yards. We spotted each other as i crested the hill and she took off at a full run. I shot her with a 458wm
My thoughts and style are 12ga for under 30 yards. 4570 for under 50 yards. 458wm for under 100 yards and 300 wm for under 300 yards. If i had a place i could frequent and shoot regularly at distance id likely move to a fast 338
My furthest shot on a bear was 164 yards. We spotted each other as i crested the hill and she took off at a full run. I shot her with a 458wm
My thoughts and style are 12ga for under 30 yards. 4570 for under 50 yards. 458wm for under 100 yards and 300 wm for under 300 yards. If i had a place i could frequent and shoot regularly at distance id likely move to a fast 338
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I posted the following on another "long range hunting" thread, and thought it might be worth repeating here . . .
Much effort has been wasted over the years by attempting to associate the range at which game is shot with ethics. In truth, there is no ethical dilemma associated with the competent shooting of game at long range. There is however a strong ethical dilemma associated with wounding game through incompetent shooting, regardless of range. Therefore there is no association between ethics and range, but ethics are closely related to competence.
At the range, you should be able to demonstrate, preferably on demand, what you intend to do in the field, under similar conditions, but you should not attempt in the field, what you have been unable to prove on the range. An accomplished long range shooter restricts the range of his shooting based on the immediate conditions he faces. The less experienced rifleman/hunter is less likely he is to understand his own limitations under any given circumstances.
Often we hear that a hunter need only hit a pie plate size target to take game, but a clay bird is a better sized target to establish a hunter's maximum range to engage game, and this gets us away from the shooting groups "trap," which has little to do with shooting game.
Much effort has been wasted over the years by attempting to associate the range at which game is shot with ethics. In truth, there is no ethical dilemma associated with the competent shooting of game at long range. There is however a strong ethical dilemma associated with wounding game through incompetent shooting, regardless of range. Therefore there is no association between ethics and range, but ethics are closely related to competence.
At the range, you should be able to demonstrate, preferably on demand, what you intend to do in the field, under similar conditions, but you should not attempt in the field, what you have been unable to prove on the range. An accomplished long range shooter restricts the range of his shooting based on the immediate conditions he faces. The less experienced rifleman/hunter is less likely he is to understand his own limitations under any given circumstances.
Often we hear that a hunter need only hit a pie plate size target to take game, but a clay bird is a better sized target to establish a hunter's maximum range to engage game, and this gets us away from the shooting groups "trap," which has little to do with shooting game.
The good thing is, in most situations one is not forced to shoot. I hate shooting competitions that dictate shooting positions that I would never use in the field on game, often positions that will lead to a lucky shot or wound. I way prefer to take a 300m shot off the bipod with my binos rammed under the rear of the stock for support than an offhand 100yd shot be it target game or vermin. I have shot about twenty deer this season, although a few were under 100yds the average is around 250m. I mainly use a 308 but have a new 300wm that is fantastic. Of course the type of animals, the terrain and under what hunting pressure one is will dictate the methods. I have a few places where one can observe across a valley into young broad leaf plantations that have high fences around them to keep deer out, of course there are always some deer inside. Gloves off approach. We have smallish Sika Deer.
I am not apposed to a longer shot within reason, seen way too many short range shots go wrong.
edi
I am not apposed to a longer shot within reason, seen way too many short range shots go wrong.
edi
I agree, but thats not what it was about. His claim shooting beyond 400 yards isnt hunting, my post was about passing on the shot because of the "ethical"(which it still is) aspect of it, not your equiptment or personal limitats, especially in a situation where you couldnt cover the ground in time, maybe the last day of your once in a lifetime trip, it happens.
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That made me laugh, that would be pretty handy. I couldnt guess how many times ive tracked and recovered animals after dark. We had a bull taken at over 400 yards this year, not on a lake but the distance was there no less. Thats not asking much out of anything in the 300 win mag class and up, if a guy can do it why not. Most times id try to stalk inw, but if need be id take the shot and not think of myself of any less of a hunter I had to still go out and find the moose, whether or not he was a hundred steps closer to me is no skin off my pecker. Ive been guiding for a "few" years, but Ive never personally lost an animal due to darkness or find the place it was shot, poor rushed shots yes, but at much closer ranges than what we are talking about. Ive lost them to tumbles and a few bears over the years from poor blood trails, not overly extended ranges on them either. Im confident im my ability to pull off that shot witht he right gun, ive done it. I dont know what to say, its not that hard if your paying attention to find a spot, ive been hunting all my life and i dont get buck fever or any of that so ive nver found it difficult, Not to say that it doesn't happen. YMMV
How did a 400 yard shot wuit 15 minuts of light turn into 600 yards in 10 seconds? Is this a fishing forum now?
Yes, EVERY TIME haha! When a guys paying 6k min, you go have a look.
Very little, like mice or chickadees? yeah a 400 yard shot wouldnt be smart, thats some damn fine shooting if you could do it though! But yeah, i dont shoot much.
Theres nothing wrong or stupid about taking a long poke if your confident and competent. Im not saying do it with your 308 or anything, just you guys are being a touch dramatic.
Heres a "long" range goat, must have been at lest 600 decimeters!
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I get annoyed at these questions as well, but, it is a valid question to learn from. I have run free mentoring programs for 7 yrs now and put about 100 people through my camps each year. I get this question often, along with what gun/camo/3" or 3.5"/boots/socks should I buy - what did our grandparents do..without this Gucci kit?. I see people who are in $1000, under armour outfits, with $2000 guns. They cant shoot, nor know how move or understand the wind, that's why I mentor. No bad questions ever, just people learning.
I pull out my Savage Axis 1 (I have 4 different calibers, <$500 guns), and show pictures of my groups at 100 to 400 yards (1'-3" MOA). Most new hunters don't have the experience, nor spend enough time on the range to develop long range shooting skills and BE consistent. This leads to teaching shootings that I learned in the army as a sniper and as part of the rifle team. My Mentor was Capt Keith Cunningham in the early 1980's. Every hunter should spend more time on the range, every hunter should know the characteristics of each rifle they own and bullet performance (by weight). You only get that by.... shooting lots. (also why I reload)
The shooting principles that I learned are:
Comfortable Natural position - take up a position, look through sights, close eyes - relax body, open eyes and see where you are pointing, make small body adjustments, close eye - open, adjust until no strain is left in holdover or sight picture. At this point you are naturally align with target. This is the most important principle to follow and the next 3, everything translates errors from this point, and they increase exponentially the farther you shoot out.
Breathing - Once aligned - take up aim point and breath naturally. Observe the rise and fall or left and right movement of crosshairs. It should be rise and fall. On a typical shot, I breath 3 breath cycles and hold breath at rise of 3rd one at mid point.
Trigger Control - Squeeze the trigger, index of knuckle, fingertip pads, it don't matter. Squeeze slowly until rifle fires. Continue to hold trigger down and observe through scope. Repeat this procedure for every shot.
Follow through - While trigger is still held back, slowly release trigger until sear clicks, continue to observe.
To the OP, if you do this and do it often, you will always hit your shot at 400M. If you don't do this, then stick within 200M as your POA and MOA will work for most shooters if not snap shooting.
Remember - Our grandfathers had denim pants and red and black hunting coats. The only thing ONLY, that matters with all large game in wind direction and movement.
Remember - As others have posted the average range is 150-200M that most game is taking across Canada. Shoot to that distance, train at that distance, practice at that distance, practice with the bullet weight you fire at that distance.
Then go out and shoot your 400M moose.
I pull out my Savage Axis 1 (I have 4 different calibers, <$500 guns), and show pictures of my groups at 100 to 400 yards (1'-3" MOA). Most new hunters don't have the experience, nor spend enough time on the range to develop long range shooting skills and BE consistent. This leads to teaching shootings that I learned in the army as a sniper and as part of the rifle team. My Mentor was Capt Keith Cunningham in the early 1980's. Every hunter should spend more time on the range, every hunter should know the characteristics of each rifle they own and bullet performance (by weight). You only get that by.... shooting lots. (also why I reload)
The shooting principles that I learned are:
Comfortable Natural position - take up a position, look through sights, close eyes - relax body, open eyes and see where you are pointing, make small body adjustments, close eye - open, adjust until no strain is left in holdover or sight picture. At this point you are naturally align with target. This is the most important principle to follow and the next 3, everything translates errors from this point, and they increase exponentially the farther you shoot out.
Breathing - Once aligned - take up aim point and breath naturally. Observe the rise and fall or left and right movement of crosshairs. It should be rise and fall. On a typical shot, I breath 3 breath cycles and hold breath at rise of 3rd one at mid point.
Trigger Control - Squeeze the trigger, index of knuckle, fingertip pads, it don't matter. Squeeze slowly until rifle fires. Continue to hold trigger down and observe through scope. Repeat this procedure for every shot.
Follow through - While trigger is still held back, slowly release trigger until sear clicks, continue to observe.
To the OP, if you do this and do it often, you will always hit your shot at 400M. If you don't do this, then stick within 200M as your POA and MOA will work for most shooters if not snap shooting.
Remember - Our grandfathers had denim pants and red and black hunting coats. The only thing ONLY, that matters with all large game in wind direction and movement.
Remember - As others have posted the average range is 150-200M that most game is taking across Canada. Shoot to that distance, train at that distance, practice at that distance, practice with the bullet weight you fire at that distance.
Then go out and shoot your 400M moose.
My objection to the shot was not due to range at all, although I never just "take a poke" at game. The fact you missed that is telling.
I would not shoot at a moose across a lake with 15 minutes of light left because of the logistics of finding, gutting, and retrieving it, even if I was pretty certain I could make the shot. The fact that you think only confidence is required to handle the consequences of taking a poke at a moose, indicates you haven't shot many. My brother-in-law once said, as we stood looking at a dead moose in a bad spot, "Nothing ruins a moose hunt quite as much as actually shooting one." I would add, that darkness, swamp, and/or a long hike around a lake don't add to the fun of moose hunting. THAT's why I (and many experienced moose hunters) would pass on the shot.
300 Win Mag and 215 Bergers. With a good rest and under good conditions 400 yds is very doable and not really considered long range. A bipod and rear bag or support make all the difference. If brush or grass is to tall then shooting off sticks. But i reduce my range because I am just not as stable with sticks. I practice to 500 yds off sticks and out to 900 yds with a bipod and rear bag.
You couldn’t blindfoldedly swing a dead cat at a gun ciunter without knocking over several 400 yard hunting rifles. You can up your odds by positioning your cat tail grip so it wont reach past 6.5mm on one side and about 8.5 mm on the other. That you will have started the process beside the bolt actions is a common sense assumption. Pick a quality scope somewhere around 3-9. If your choice brackets that; or fits inside, or over-laps part of that X range it’ll likely work too.
Just add a 400 yard shooter and you’re good to go.
Just add a 400 yard shooter and you’re good to go.
Right on. I also said competent by the way, riiight after confident. Dont cherry pick , This was what i said,
"Theres nothing wrong or stupid about taking a long poke if your confident and competent." The fact you purposley omit that detail and then make that assumption indicates to me, well i wont go there.
Darkness, swamp, and/or a long hike around a lake don't add to the fun of moose hunting, man that IS moose hunting. Then again ive never hunted Saksatchewan. What do I know, you got me figured out.
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I was one who disparaged the popularity of the current long range hunting craze. Upon reflection I realized that anyone who has ever missed a shot has no moral ground to stand on, stones and glass houses etc. Of all the botched shots I personally recall, none have been due to extreme range. When your target is "out there a ways" you generally have time to get comfortable and shoot confidently. I like flat shooting rifles and sight in so that a "hold on hair" will take me as far as I can hold steady. Not long range shooting in the current sense but stuff gets pretty small at 400 yards and I'd likely pass. Kudos to those with the skills and dedication to enjoy shooting farther.
Here in Sask a lot of guys bang off a couple boxes of shells at deer before they tag out. I wonder how many shots a disciplined long range hunter fires at game in a season?
Long range moose I would look at a fast 7mm, like the 7 RUM or the 28 Nosler. Think well constructed bullet too, Nosler partition, Accubond LR, Barnes TSX, Hornady GMX etc. For glass you will want BDC reticle as a minimum and possibly a christmas tree style and maybe target/tactical style turrets if you prefer to dial, and a good accurate laser range finder capable of angle compensation, and a wind metre too. Lots of gear that costs lots of cash, once you have it then you need to spend lots of time learning how to use it. Can it be done with out all the gear? Sure it can, but it is more luck then rather than skill and knowledge.
