long range moose hunting - need bigger gun?

There is some bad advice being given here. I owed a 20"bbl BLR in 308 and currently have a 20" Win M70 in 308. All of the 180g hand loads and factory ammo I have chronographed out of these rifes show that a 300 yard shot with 180g'rs is risky at best. The one any only reason (but is is a big one) is that the velocity at 300 is below that required to open the average copper lead bullet consistantly and reliably. There is a big probablity that the bullet may not open and act simmalr to a pointed full metal jacket (may not have straight line penetration, may poke a tiny hole, may tumble if your lucky)

I would not recomend the use of 180g'rs out of a 20"bbl 308. The very heavest you would ever want to go would be 165 but it would need to be an easy to open bullet, like a Nosler Balistic tip or Hornady SST. The problem with these choices of course is you may not get the greatest penetration at close range (but I personaly wouldn't worry to much about any broad side shot)

Get a 300, 7mm (dosn't matter wich one) but only if you feel like buying a new rifle.
 
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A 308 will kill a Moose just fine but way bigger guns kill way better. I like my 338 but I also have a .416 Rem, .416 Rigby and a 378 on the way. You don't need them but why not use them.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
All of the 180g hand loads and factory ammo I have chronographed out of these rifes show that a 300 yard shot with 180g'rs is risky at best.
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Running some data trhough a ballistics calculator, I can see that even at a measly 2500fps at the muzzle, the remaining velocity at 300 yards is still greater than the muzzle velocity of a 170 grain 30-30 load. And we all know that that's totally incapable of killing a moose :p
 
I've shot and seen shot a passle of moose with a 165 gr or 180 gr bullet out of a 30-06 at ranges beyond 200 and out to 300 yards. Through the lungs will not always put them on their knees immediately, but they die pretty quickly thereafter.

Check your trajectory tables, but I think with my '06 with a 168 TSX at 2875 fps sighted in for a 250 yard zero is 3" high at 100 and 4" low at 300. At 150 yards it is 3.25" high and that is the apex. Energy retained at 100 is 2600 fpe
Energy at 200 is 2278 fpe and at 300 it is 1940 fpe. That is at 2875 fps. The 308 won't likely reach that, but not by that much. If you limit your shots to 300 yards, you should do okay, and the TSX penetrates like an ice pick. ;)
 
Thats the problem exactly, not enough velocity down range
maybe enough for the perfect broadside shot, but not enough for any other profile
i'll try loading the tips you recommend @165g & see how they shoot & hopefully chrono them to get an idea of the velocity

mark

Republic of Alberta said:
There is some bad advice being given here. I owed a 20"bbl BLR in 308 and currently have a 20" Win M70 in 308. All of the 180g hand loads and factory ammo I have chronographed out of these rifes show that a 300 yard shot with 180g'rs is risky at best. The one any only reason (but is is a big one) is that the velocity at 300 is below that required to open the average copper lead bullet consistantly and reliably. There is a big probablity that the bullet may not open and act simmalr to a pointed full metal jacket (may not have straight line penetration, may poke a tiny hole, may tumble if your lucky)

I would not recomend the use of 180g'rs out of a 20"bbl 308. The very heavest you would ever want to go would be 165 but it would need to be an easy to open bullet, like a Nosler Balistic tip or Hornady SST. The problem with these choices of course is you may not get the greatest penetration at close range (but I personaly wouldn't worry to much about any broad side shot)

Get a 300, 7mm (dosn't matter wich one) but only if you feel like buying a new rifle.
Click to expand...
 
Look at the HE Federal 180gr load on the Federal website, with 180gr Partitions.

At 300yards its 2196 fps and 1928 fps. That is more than enough energy and velocity to open without any problems. You don't need a new rifle, just the right cartridge.
 
The .308 with a decent load will drop a moose no problem at 300 yards. Period.

Use a bullet like a 150-grain or a 168-grain Tripleshock pushed by a decent charge of something like Varget or Reloder 15 and you will easily be able to shoot to .300 yards. A properly loaded .308 is accurate to 1,000 yards. I spent half of August shooting out to ranges including 1,000 yards in Ottawa with a .308 and a 155-grain bullet.

If you load that 150-grain Tripleshock up to achieve 2,800 feet-per-second (easy, even with a 20-inch barrel), and you zero at around 250 yards, your bullet will not drop more than about 6 inches at 300 yards. Believe it. It's true.

At that 300 yard range, it will still be hitting fast enough to open that bullet, which is what you want. Don't get fooled by a hundred foot pounds here or there. The bullet will have more than enough juice to penetrate the vitals of a moose at that range.

Just make sure you use a bullet like a Tripleshock, Accubond, etc. and you'll be fine.

If you like your .308, work up a new load, but don't change the rifle.
 
Having had the same rifle as you - a BLR in 308 with the 20" tube. and hunting where I do, I decided 300 yards was a little too far even for deer with my rifle. Mostly because the tragectory at 2500 ft/s was a little much at that distance, moreso the rifle wasn't very accurate at that distance. (Of course I shot at that distance to confirm.) Plus, its often real windy around here.

I have since set up a new Ruger mk11 with the longer barrel that shoots 165 gr Hornadys at about 2850 ft/s and groups around 2 1/2 inches at 300 yards.;) It prints 8" low out there sited in 2 " high at 100yds. I'd shoot moose at 300 with this 308 no problemo :popCorn:
 
Well personally i just bought a weatherby vangaurd last weekend in 300 wby mag, i dont know what your thoughts on recoil are as this rifle is fairly hefty in that department but i have found that it shoots amazing, so far i have tried only 180 gr partitions, i would like to drop down and try something in 165, i looked at both remington and savage rifles and i picked this one just my opinion of what fit me the best.
 
A few years back, one of our older guys took a moose at 250 with his trusty 30-30.
The 308 will work fine at 300. However, if you are not comfortable with it, best go bigger. I know that feeling, and watching a moose with 'should I or shouldn't I' running through your head is not good. We go hunting for a good time, not to be second guessing ourselves.

If it were me going bigger, I'd opt for the 338WM, and have no fears about flattening a moose.
 
If your not lookin for a reason to purchase a new gun :p
I'd load some 150s or 165s, practise at the max range you feel comfortable with & "hav at er"
You better off with a good shooting gun your comfortable with than an unknown your not.
 
It doesn't require a cannon to kill a moose, even out at 300+ yards. I have shot a goodly number of those big, delicious animals, with chamberings that start at 6mm Remington (Not Recommended!) and go on up to the 375 H&H. Last two moose have been shot with the 8x57, one at 150, one at 275. Trajectory would be very similar to the 308 with 180 grain bullets. Both were bang flops. I would have absolutely NO problem out to 350 with my 8x57, and by inference, the same would apply to the 308 Winchester. Buy a bigger gun only if you want to, not because you think you need it! Regards, Eagleye.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
A few years back, one of our older guys took a moose at 250 with his trusty 30-30.
The 308 will work fine at 300. However, if you are not comfortable with it, best go bigger. I know that feeling, and watching a moose with 'should I or shouldn't I' running through your head is not good. We go hunting for a good time, not to be second guessing ourselves.

If it were me going bigger, I'd opt for the 338WM, and have no fears about flattening a moose.
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250 with a dirty 30 eh? I know a few old fellows who still do that with round nose. Mind you, at that range energy is some low.
 
Sure you can kill a moose with a 308 @ 300 yards. That's not the point. We owe it to the critters we hunt to shoot them with the best rifle, in the most appropriate cartridge, with the best bullet and in the most accurate load. The most difficult part of going on a hunt is deciding which 1/2" shooting rifle I'm going to use and which one to take as backup. For my hunting partner, it's which custom made knife to carry on his belt, which one to have in his fanny pack and how many he is going to stuff in his duffle bag. But he's a knife nut. (I'd go with a 338 win mag or a 35 Whelen, or both. Belgium Brownings of course)
 
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