It seems like all the devopment for long range precision shooting has focussed on 308; 6.5mm, 6mm, 7mm or big boomers of one kind or another. I'm not aware of anyone working with the 270 in this regard. Does anyone know if there some theoretical reason for this or are there other reasons? I don't have much experience with the caliber myself, but have been curious why it stays in the hunting area without guys branching out and trying other things with it.
Long Range Potential of 270 Caliber
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
When you get into real accuracy quality Benchrest bullets are required... and no one makes them in 27 caliber... and when you get into long range shooting long streamlined bullets are required and in the past none were available in .270...
That and the fact that there is absolutely nothing the 270 offers that the same case in 6.5 or 7mm or .30 caliber does not already do well...
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
There is a bit of stuff for the 270 coming. Check with Sierra and Berger. The options will likely be one or two.
There is no reason why the 25 or 27 cal have been overlooked. They both offer some very exciting potential IF some bullet maker will start making bullets.
The 25 cal bullet can be made to rival the 6.5 bullets at less weight. The 6mm seems to have hit the wall as far as higher BC numbers.
The 27cal will push right with the 7mm 180gr Berger and again at lighter weight. This would be a huge benefit in F class where magnums are usually restricted. A 150 to 165gr 27cal with a BC around 0.65/68 would be a huge bullet.
A 270-284 would be a great cartridge for 1000/1200yds F class.
However, no one seems to be interested.....yet
Jerry
There is no reason why the 25 or 27 cal have been overlooked. They both offer some very exciting potential IF some bullet maker will start making bullets.
The 25 cal bullet can be made to rival the 6.5 bullets at less weight. The 6mm seems to have hit the wall as far as higher BC numbers.
The 27cal will push right with the 7mm 180gr Berger and again at lighter weight. This would be a huge benefit in F class where magnums are usually restricted. A 150 to 165gr 27cal with a BC around 0.65/68 would be a huge bullet.
A 270-284 would be a great cartridge for 1000/1200yds F class.
However, no one seems to be interested.....yet
Jerry
Sierra makes 115 and 135 grain Matchking .277" bullets. How readily available they are in Canada is another question. Your local gun shop can order them if their supplier has them in stock. The 135 drops like a brick between 300 and 400 yards. Sierra has ballistics charts on their .exteriorballistics.com site. Add the W's.
None of Berger, Hornady nor Nosler make a match grade bullet for the .270.
As mentioned, the shortage of quality .277" match bullets is why it's not used much for target shooting. Mind you, it's not so very long ago that the same situation existed with 6mm bullets too. We can thank the benchrest shooters for that changing.
None of Berger, Hornady nor Nosler make a match grade bullet for the .270.
As mentioned, the shortage of quality .277" match bullets is why it's not used much for target shooting. Mind you, it's not so very long ago that the same situation existed with 6mm bullets too. We can thank the benchrest shooters for that changing.
Bullets and brass period. When there is a market for the components, they will appear. When the components appear, the guns will appear. Precision catch 22.
30-06 derivatives are not used in competition much. 6.8mm could be a great caliber, but 6.5 and 7 have definitely got the followings to support their continued components and development
30-06 derivatives are not used in competition much. 6.8mm could be a great caliber, but 6.5 and 7 have definitely got the followings to support their continued components and development
I take the point; bullets and brass and bench rest use. I'll add military use as a factor too. But in a way this might actually beg the question, because it may also be true that if interest was exhibited in the round, the bullets and cases would have developed. Like Jerry, I was kind of thinking that while the 6.5 (.264) bullet is very good at long range and demonstrably successful, the 270 might just allow the use of a somewhat larger bullet with similar BC, or even better, and might be even more effective. Instead, historically what was picked up over here was the 6.5, a caliber with impressive credentials admittedly, certainly nothing wrong with it, but one developed primarily in Europe. I'm not against adopting things from Europe, far from it, but wouldn't it have been easier to explore the 270. It has had a reputation on this continent for being a fast travelling, flat-shooting, accurate rifle cartridge for many years. Besides it irritates me that no one seems to have done it.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Alberta Wildcats has be building some very large .277 bullets for some time niow, IIRC.
match grade , using J4 jackets....
Cat
270 accuracy
interesting thread. I have an older Sako in .270Win which I intend to test the potential of, hopefully this year if spare time and money exist. Got a nice scope, a bipod, looking for 30mm rings at the moment. Berger says they have .277 bullets now, and a gunnutz says he can import them, so I'll give em a try along with the matchkings. first we'll work on accuracy, then see how far out I can take it. I may have to draft a better marksman......
interesting thread. I have an older Sako in .270Win which I intend to test the potential of, hopefully this year if spare time and money exist. Got a nice scope, a bipod, looking for 30mm rings at the moment. Berger says they have .277 bullets now, and a gunnutz says he can import them, so I'll give em a try along with the matchkings. first we'll work on accuracy, then see how far out I can take it. I may have to draft a better marksman......
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Yes, the 270 can be made into a superb long range round since it is between a 6.5 and 7mm. Just get some custom bullets and you're all set. For some reason it and the .25 just hasn't taken off as a target round despite them being around for a long time. Most focus is on the 6, 6.5mm or 30cal for long range work.
270
lm using those 135 mk's in a 270 -08 AI with a 1000 yard hart barrel on it and the accuracy has been good for me ,anything above 2800 fps the BC is .488.but it would be nice to have some more varieties to try out.
lm using those 135 mk's in a 270 -08 AI with a 1000 yard hart barrel on it and the accuracy has been good for me ,anything above 2800 fps the BC is .488.but it would be nice to have some more varieties to try out.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Not too long ago, the 6mm was suggested as a potential LR cal. Many shooters said "no way" due in large part to a lack of bullets and the proven record of the 30's and 338's.
When a 6BR took an unlimited class 1000yd shoot, people started paying attention and new products came quickly.
Now the 6mm is right in there. New bullets are pushing what the 6mm can do and consistent accuracy is even displacing the larger bores. Is it the perfect solution? NOPE.
The way we build bullets, how much spin they need to stabilize vs how fast they can go, is pretty much reaching limits in all small cals. When you need a twist rate faster then 7 for a bullet, you run a very real risk of accuracy issues due to bullet failures.
Simply, a point of diminishing returns. Also, with the larger bores, recoil gets too high to use.
The 6mm 117gr bullets haven't faired so well. Can they be improved, maybe but their BC is maxed out at 0.6.
The 6.5's still beat that and the bullets are understressed. Why there isn't a heavier 150gr class VLD, I am unsure. Maybe they too will run into bullet issues?????
So the 25 cal is a larger bore which will allow a bullet to reach 0.6 and over while retaining the same structural qualities of the 115gr 6mm. My guess would be a 125 to 130gr VLD.
Better BC then the 6mm, lower recoil then the 6.5. Good mix.
As I said previously, the 270 would bridge the better ballistics of the 7mm with the lower recoil of the 6.5. A 155 to 168gr VLD should get the BC in the mid to high 6's.
You wouldn't need a magnum sized case to get good velocities either - important for many sports.
I think these cals will be investigated now that bullet tech in existing cals have flatlined.
The only other large leap in bullet tech would be in making them much lighter for their given shape. That will allow much higher speeds which equals better wind drift.
Time will tell...
Jerry
When a 6BR took an unlimited class 1000yd shoot, people started paying attention and new products came quickly.
Now the 6mm is right in there. New bullets are pushing what the 6mm can do and consistent accuracy is even displacing the larger bores. Is it the perfect solution? NOPE.
The way we build bullets, how much spin they need to stabilize vs how fast they can go, is pretty much reaching limits in all small cals. When you need a twist rate faster then 7 for a bullet, you run a very real risk of accuracy issues due to bullet failures.
Simply, a point of diminishing returns. Also, with the larger bores, recoil gets too high to use.
The 6mm 117gr bullets haven't faired so well. Can they be improved, maybe but their BC is maxed out at 0.6.
The 6.5's still beat that and the bullets are understressed. Why there isn't a heavier 150gr class VLD, I am unsure. Maybe they too will run into bullet issues?????
So the 25 cal is a larger bore which will allow a bullet to reach 0.6 and over while retaining the same structural qualities of the 115gr 6mm. My guess would be a 125 to 130gr VLD.
Better BC then the 6mm, lower recoil then the 6.5. Good mix.
As I said previously, the 270 would bridge the better ballistics of the 7mm with the lower recoil of the 6.5. A 155 to 168gr VLD should get the BC in the mid to high 6's.
You wouldn't need a magnum sized case to get good velocities either - important for many sports.
I think these cals will be investigated now that bullet tech in existing cals have flatlined.
The only other large leap in bullet tech would be in making them much lighter for their given shape. That will allow much higher speeds which equals better wind drift.
Time will tell...
Jerry
With Berger bringing out a .270 150grn VLD and norma making .270 WSM brass I think we will see a few rifles put together based on this combo. It would be a great idea for anyone out there less than happy with their factory WSM or one of those near extinct SAUM's. Should be able to launch a 150-165gr bullet well over 3000fps in a custom barrel around 26-28" in length.
I have a savage 300WSM DM SS sitting around right now and if I can get my hands on some bullets I think it will be a future project. The .270WSM is very similar in design to the 6.5/284 just a little shorter and a lot fatter. One good thing about this combo is in the WSM style actions there should be no OAL issues like the 6.5/284 that is best suited for a long action. Even in my detachable mag from my best estimates on bullet length, the bullet will not sit any more than .125 thou beneath the neck. Design the reamer to match that for seating length and were of to the races.
Just need a good source of bullets.
Dave
I have a savage 300WSM DM SS sitting around right now and if I can get my hands on some bullets I think it will be a future project. The .270WSM is very similar in design to the 6.5/284 just a little shorter and a lot fatter. One good thing about this combo is in the WSM style actions there should be no OAL issues like the 6.5/284 that is best suited for a long action. Even in my detachable mag from my best estimates on bullet length, the bullet will not sit any more than .125 thou beneath the neck. Design the reamer to match that for seating length and were of to the races.
Just need a good source of bullets.
Dave
I am starting on my first longer range/hunting rifle this year in .270wsm, its a savage 12fvss and I was working with some hornady bullets that werent turning out for me, so I am giving the 135gr SMK a shot, and then the berger VLD so I will have some status updates when it gets warmer. however as this is my first LR rifle I dont have much to judge it against... either way it will be interesting to see what I can get it to do
As long as she launches those Berger VLD's over 3000fps and keeps em under MOA, you should be having alot of fun out to and over the 1000m mark. Wouldn't hunt big game past 600m - 700m though (getting low on impact energy), and only once you can hit a pie plate every time at any distance up to that. Sounds like fun, good luck and keep us posted.
Dave
I have also been attracted to .25 cal for many of the same reasons, I have a build in the works using a 24inch 1:10 Gaillard bbl, Stiller action, and laminated stock. I am using a wildcat reamer based on 115gn Berger VLD's - the heaviest match bullet I could find, the case is a 25-243 AI with a 35 degree shoulder. If this rifle shoots reasonably, and if heavier bullets become available, I will make one with a longer heavier bbl, otherwise I will keep it for Deer, and varmints.... always so many things to try!
