Long range scope for a mtn rifle

Tikkam65

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Ok guys looking for some impute here
I built a long range 6.5 mountain rifle
I perfect balance between weight and accuracy
for 600 to 1000 yards
but the glass I put on it gets solar glare a twilight
which is no good for hunting so I'm after a new long range scope
power needs to be above 20 so meaning 20,24,32
Tactical turrets side focus but not too big or heavy

ps also 30 mm tube

ideas would be great

thanks
 
If other than the glare you are happy with your existing scope, why not add a shade tube and/or "honeycomb mesh" glare reducer device to it?

The "not too big or heavy" requirements, quite reasonable for a mountain rifle, look pretty demanding. I am interested to see what scopes might be suggested.
 
The Sightrons and Leupold Mark 4's are pretty lightweight when compared to the likes of Nightforce, Premier, etc. Both are plenty rugged as well.
 
Certain brands tend to be lighter than others. Nightforce is on the heavy end of the scale and Sightron, Leupold Mark 4 and March are on the light end of the weight scale. Now low weight does not necessarily translate to low price. March are about $3000 while Sightron are in the $900-$1100 range.
 
I got a Sightron SII Big Sky 6X20X50mm that I am very happy with. Side focus, turrets, sun shade and flip up caps included.

I got mine from Peter at Hirsch Precision. I was really happy with his prices and service.
 
Swarovski will be the lightest and clearest
Swarovski 3.5-18 or even the 5-25 with the brh or brx reticle would be my pick. They have 4.5 mils hold in the reticle and 5.5 if you use the top of the bottom post. The 18 power scope if far more clear at distance than a mark 4 20x. At elevation I can get out to 900 yards with a 140 Berger going 2980gps zeroed at 100 yards. The 18 power scope is 18 oz.
 
Yesterday I shot personal bests at 700 and 800 yards with a borrowed Viper PST 4-16x50. I was convinced that 16x wasn't going to be enough, but it just wasn't true.
 
I can vote for the March as well, nice and compact, great turrets with a zero set if you get the tactical model. I had the 2.5-25x42 hunting version on my sheep hunt this year and almost pulled the trigger on a ram at 768 yards, 25x was nice to have, and 2.5x is great for the close shots. Awesome eye relief too.
 
Some thoughts and observations, based on having setup up a healthy number of "mountain" rigs for customers, using a variety of lightweight mountain-style rifles (Tikka T3 Lites, Sako Finnlights, Christiensen Arms, Browning Mountain TI, Kimber Mountain Ascent, RMR, Forbes Model 20, HS Precision PHL...).

Huskemaw, Leupold and Vortex do not enter into these discussions as I cannot speak from personal sales experience on these brands - however all three, certainly Huskemaw and Leupold have asserted themselves as excellent candidates for this type of setup.

A "long-range mountain" rifle has few requirements in mind:
1 - lower overall weight,
2 - balance,
3 - durability,
4 - adequate magnification range for ethical "longer" shots (at least 14 power at the high end),
5 - some sort of ballistic reticle or turret (either mil/moa click-dilineated, or preferrably in yards/meters).

Accordingly, and at the risk of ruffling some feathers, certain brands/makes, models, and inherent specifications make some rifle scopes less desirable for a "mountain" setup (this is all observational, not authoritative, so feel free to disagree).

Zeiss Classic Conquest line: with the discontinuation of the Rapid-Z reticles in this line and without the availability of a ballistic turret, the Classic Conquests are no longer candidates.
Zeiss Victory HT line: with a maximum mag of 12x in the 56mm objective model, this line falls short in the magnification department.
Zeiss Diavari line: the 4-16x50mm and 6-24x56mm models could be considered, however they run in the 725 - 800 gram range, making them a tad heavy.
Sightron: excellent value for money scopes, however they admittedly lack the durability required for hunting in an alpine environment.
Nightforce: while outstanding, exceedingly durable, feature-rich, long-range scopes, an NXS 5.5-22x56 tips the scales at close to 900 grams, making it both heavy and unbalanced. That being said, a personal friend packed his 338 Edge sporting an NXS 5.5-22x56mm into the mountains this year and bagged a sheep, so if you don't mind lugging that sort of rig around the mountains, it can serve you well.

The March Hunting 2.5-25x42mm:
Cost: $2,450
Features: 610 grams, 30mm tube, 42mm objective for low profile and balance, 100 MoA of adjustment, ED glass, widest mag range of any scope available
Cons: MoA based turret (vs. range dilineated ballistic style turret), limited availability in Canada, warranty, weight

Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44mm with Ballistic Turret (or BRH/BRX reticle):
Cost: $1,599
Features: 451 grams, 1-inch tube, 44mm objective for low profile and balance, very useable mag range, outstanding warranty, flexible and user friendly ballistic turret system
Cons: only 36 MoA of adjustment

Swarovski Z5 5-25x52mm with Ballistic Turret (or BRH/BRX reticle):
Price: $1,739
Features: 495 grams, 1-inch tube, wide mag range, outstanding warranty, flexible and user friendly ballistic turret system
Cons: only 25 moa of adjustment, 52mm objective is largish for a mountain-style setup, 5x minimum mag is "too high" for some

Swarovski Z6 5-30x50mm with Ballistic Turret (or BRH/BRX reticle):
Cost: $2,699
Features: 600 grams, 30mm tube, highest magnification of any scope in its weight/quality class, outstanding warranty, flexible and user friendly ballistic turret system, some of the best HD glass available in any scope
Cons: only 25 moa of adjustment, 50mm objective is getting largish for a moutain-style setup, 5x minimum mag is "too high" for some, cost

Leica ER 3.5-14x42mm with IBS or Ballistic Reticle and Target Turret:
Cost: $1,599
Features: 470 grams, 30mm, tube, 42mm objective for low profile and balance, 50 moa of adjustment, IBS/ballistic reticle software is excellent, dovetails well with CRF-1600B or Geovid HD-B ballistic output, excellent optics
Cons: mag range is lacking, the Leica ER scopes are a bit of a dark horse at this point and potential buyers are uncertain

Zeiss HD5 3-15x42mm with Rapid-Z Reticle:
Cost: $1,099
Features: 521 grams, 1-inch tube, 42mm objective for low profile and balance, Rapid-Z reticle system is outstanding, reasonably priced, Conquest line is durable, reliable and well-proven
Cons: on the heavier side, Zeiss does not have an inherent ballistic reticle system (turrets available through Kenton Industries in the US)

Zeiss HD5 5-25x50mm with Rapid-Z Reticle:
Cost: $1,249
Features: 754 grams, 1-inch tube, Rapid-Z reticle system is outstanding, reasonably priced, Conquest line is durable, reliable and well-proven, wide mag range
Cons: 50mm objective is getting largish for a mountain setup, 5x minimum mag is "too high" for some, combination of weight and objective size on a lightweight "mountain" rifle will result in an unbalanced setup, Zeiss does not have an inherent ballistic reticle system (turrets available through Kenton Industries in the US).

Ballistic Turret vs. Ballistic Reticle:

While the choice between these can be a matter of preference, there is a key differential between these two styles of ranging that must be considered: with a second-focal plane scope, the hold-over values of a ballistic reticle (Swaro BRH/BRX, Zeiss Rapid-Z, Leica IBS/Ballistic Reticle, Nightforce Velocity, etc...) vary with the magnification setting. In other words, when a ballistic reticle is setup for specific caliber/load/environmental data, the corresponding range for each reticle subtension will change depending on what magnification the scope is set to. Thus, using the Rapid-Z system for example, given the particulars of the inputs, for the "5" subtension line to equal 500 yards, the scope MUST be set at a specific magnification, or the "5" will not equal 500 yards.

Sometimes, the "optimal" zoom setting (as dictated by the ballistic software) is vaguish and interpolated (i.e. 13.7x) making it difficult to be precise that the scope is in fact at the correct zoom setting. Most modern software solutions allow the user to specify a magnification they would like to operate at (i.e. at 10x power), affording some flexibility, however the output might be difficult to memorize and actualize in the field, especially during a stressful situation (i.e. at 10x, the Rapid-Z #2 line = 176 yards, #3 line = 268 yards, #4 line = 353 yards, etc... rather than the lines falling on even, 50 or 100 yard increments).

For some systems (i.e. NF Velocity) the configuration is simplified, as the scope must be set at maximum magnification for the range values to fall into place - making the "setting" of the scope relatively easy. However using maximum magnification when hunting carries with it a much different set of risks than when shooting paper.

Given these functional realities, the risks/limitations of a ballistic reticle should be considered. First, for the reticle to work, the user must always remember to place the scope at the proper magnification setting before shooting. Second, there are certain situations when the "proper" magnification setting could prove disadvantageous. The primary risk is that when the magnification must be set very high for the reticle subtensions to work as desired, the scope could be zoomed-in more than the user would like when considering target reaquisition for follow-up shots. In other words, you are zoomed-in very close, and after the realities of pulling the trigger (recoil, muzzle-rise, the target moving) you become "lost in the scope" and cannot find your target again without a) "dismounting" your eye from the scope to find the target, and/or b) powering the scope down to a lower magnification for a wider field of view.

With a ballistic turret that utilizes the central point of the crosshair as the POI, the range function works regardless of the magnification setting. Of course, the user must remember to turn the turret to the correct value/setting prior to shooting.

Given the allowance for variable magnification, it can be argued that a yard/meter dilineated ballistic turret affords the user more ease of use and flexibility, while reducing the risks of becoming "lost in the scope" - merely an opinion and certainly open to debate.

Recommendation:

Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44mm with Ballistic Turret - light-weight, balanced, outstanding optics, optimally sized objective, durable construction, best warranty in the business, excellent magnification range, user configurable ballistic turret (custom turret optional), and reasonably priced.

When paired with an optic/rangefinder that provides Equivalent Horizontal Distance (i.e. Swarovski EL-Range, Leica CRF-1600B, Leica Geovid HD-B...), it makes for a straight-forward and very effective combination, particularly in the mountains.
 
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Recommendation:

Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44mm with Ballistic Turret - light-weight, balanced, outstanding optics, optimally sized objective, durable construction, best warranty in the business, excellent magnification range, user configurable ballistic turret (custom turret optional), and reasonably priced.

With a mere 36MOA of elevation adjustment, I seriously doubt you would get anywhere close to the OP's 1,000 yard goal with the Swaro Z5.

We are definitely in the realm of 30mm tubes at that point.
 
That's a ton of useful information provided by PS. That deserves a good read by all looking for a hunting scope.

Thanks for posting Bro.
 
With a mere 36MOA of elevation adjustment, I seriously doubt you would get anywhere close to the OP's 1,000 yard goal with the Swaro Z5.

We are definitely in the realm of 30mm tubes at that point.

Yes, admittedly it's a REAL stretch, but it has been done (past 900 yards anyway). Caliber selection and the depth of the zero being paramount. By the way, the conspicuous absence of elevation adjustment in the Swaro scopes is not a symptom of short-sightedness, but a philosophical choice. Perhaps one day they will reconsider and come out with tactical products.
 
Yes, admittedly it's a REAL stretch, but it has been done (past 900 yards anyway). Caliber selection and the depth of the zero being paramount. By the way, the conspicuous absence of elevation adjustment in the Swaro scopes is not a symptom of short-sightedness, but a philosophical choice. Perhaps one day they will reconsider and come out with tactical products.

Yes, even their 30mm Z6 has a meagre amount of elevation adjustment...I suspect a result of their European roots. It really is hard for the European optic manufacturers to embrace the North American way of hunting but it seems a few are coming around.
 
It really is hard for the European optic manufacturers to embrace the North American way of hunting but it seems a few are coming around.

Sorry, but the "North American way of hunting" doesn't involve 1000 yard shots on a frequent basis, as much as you'd like to think this is the norm, lol.

Their ballistic reticles and the BT system is plenty for 99.9% of hunters.

If you're referring to competitive long range shooting, then yes, Swarovski is "behind", though it's obviously not a market segment they're after.
 
You really do love to argue with me don't you bear...if you actually read what I wrote you'd get my point but somehow your desire to argue with me blinds you. It's too bad. It's sad that you have to put words in my mouth to make your points...words I never said nor intended. But I guess if you didn't invent things that I said you wouldn't have much to argue with me about would you. Let's just stick to what I actually say bear and not what you'd like me to have said and then we can avoid these awkward moments. The European style of hunting is much different than the North American style for a large number of reasons and European optics have been constructed for the European market for decades. Most of them are starting to look more seriously at the North American market, however....and we are seeing changes that better suit the North American style of hunting.

The OP asked a question and I was trying to help him with HIS decision. Obviously the Swaro Z5 was not the answer to HIS question.

I hardly think 1,000 yard shots are the norm nor do I consider myself a long-range shooter ....I was just trying to help the OP :)
 
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