long range scope tug of war

johnny rotten

johnny rotten

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
20   0   0
Location
Purgatory
I was at Le Baron today, and am interested in two of their scopes for long range shooting. The models are:

Bushnell Elite 4200, 6X-24X 40mm with mil dot reticle

Bushnell Elite 3200, 10X fixed 40mm with mil dot reticle

The type of shooting I am interested in is long range targets, and eventually may try competition as well after lots of practice. I like the variable power scope because it gives me the option of close ranges or distance, and I like the fixed power scope because it seems a bit more user friendly ( don't have to worry about magnification and range estimating conflicts ). Although there is a price difference between the two scopes, i'd be willing to splurge for the more expensive one, as I will be keeping this scope for quite awhile. Should I stick with the tried and true mil issue 10X fixed, or go with the variable power? I know some of you long range shooters should have lots of pointers on this one.

Cheers
 
I'm no scope expert nor do I play one on TV but I would think that if your gut is telling you 10X then go with that one. Wierd things tend to happen with too much magnification like increased effect of heat mirage.
I am not sure which focal plane the reticle is in on the Bushnell Elite 4200, 6X-24X 40mm but it probably will have issues with range estimation when using different mag levels.
 
The only Bushnell scope which will work is the 10x 3200. You will need knobs that you can read and this is the only Bushnell with them. But 10x is not enough if you want to get serious at long range (900m) or in F class. If you are interested in shooting at Connaught then you should come out on a Sunday am and talk to some of the guys shooting scopes. Some of which are among the best in the world. They will tell you what you need and then you can go from there.

Ian
 
So the variable power model with mil dots would be a bad idea? If so, i would assume that's why the military seems to like fixed power scopes. Do most of your friends use Leupolds, or some other brand with a different reticle for range estimating. I have been looking around online for scope info, but get a bit mind boggled sometimes to to the huge selection out there.
 
The fixed 10 power scope sounds tempting, but I like having the capability of high power variable magnification for those distant or small targets. Once I purchase a scope for my new rifle, I would like to keep the scope for a long time. Constant upgrading would be a hassle and expensive too.
 
I have both and they are diffrent
the 6-24 i have on a 22 250 and very seldom do i shoot past 16 power unless its a cool shot on a gopher
there is mariage with the high power scopes but you dont have to use the high power
the 10x is on my 17 hmr and it is perfect for this i can see as far as i want to shoot this gun
for actual target lond distance shooting I would look into geting a leupold mark 4
or a night force
you cant shoot a gun to the best of its ability if the scope is less quality than the gun
 
I have both the 4200 6-24 mil dot and the 3200 fixed 10. The 10X is simply not enough, don't let anyone tell you different.

The 4200's have only a small amount of internal adjustment so without a lot of luck, you most likely will not be able to adjust to past 600 or 800 yards. Burris Signiture rings with offset inserts can correct the 100 zero to near optimum bottom out of the scope adjustment. However, unless you are shooting a BC of .500 or better with a very fast bullet, you cannot make it to 1000. There is nothing wrong with a 2 or 300 yard zero to save yourself $1000, you can get the Nightforce when you get serious. The turrets are called semi-turret because they are small and you have to really pay attention to them when adjusting compared to the turrets on the 3200, which are large and the markings are easy to see and use.

Consider the 8-32, even though it has a regular crosshair, lots of days have no mirage and you can lower the magnification at any time if needed.

These are great scopes for the money but I doubt you will see a Bushnell on a serious long range shooter's rifle.
 
Ok thanks for the pointers on the bushnells. I was thinking that there may be problems adjusting for long range elevations with both of them. You mentioned nightforce optics, I had a look at their scopes on Bashaw Optics page out west. They sure sound like great scopes and i like their 5.5x - 22x with the 50mm objective. Would a scope like that have what it takes to focus on distant targets and be able to adjust for needed elevation etc? They are expensive scopes, but I would rather buy one expensive scope than several less expensive ones and be constantly upgrading.
 
I looked at the nightforce a bit closer and think that a pair of high mount scope rings may be needed for it. I would rather stay lower to the bore if possible with 40mm objectives vs the big nightforce ones. What about Leupold mk4's for long range? Can they reach out long range with their internal adjustments?
 
The 3200 fixed 10 has about 80 minutes of adjustment, which in theory, should put you out to 1000 yards without any help of offset ring inserts or canted bases. The one factor I find a lot of people don't look into when looking for high magnification scopes is the size of the exit pupil. Big fancy term for the small hole your eye looks through. Hold the scope at arms length and see how small that "light" hole is. Is your pupil bigger than that???? Then you are going to have a hard time finding the perfect sweet spot every time you look through it. The image will come in and out. edge to edge sharpness will fade in and out. The bigger the oblective lense, the more light will travel to your eye and usually have a larger, more forgiving exit pupil.
That being said You usually don't experience problems until you get past 12X with a 40mm objective.
If you plan on hunting and actually ranging, then a variable would suit well for the field. I hunt graoundhogs and will admit that sometimes it's hard to take the time and range properly with a mil-dot scope. If just shooting static targets that don't move, I personally believe that marksmanship counts for a lot more than higher magnification. The old saying is still "If you can see it, You can hit it"

As for the Leupolds having enough elevation and clarity for long range.....That's what they were designed for. Super clear, 70 + minutes of adjustment, paralax adjustment..etc
 
Last edited:
I was checking out Leupold scopes and came across this one, MK4 6.5 - 20 x 50mm LR/T M1 illuminated reticle. The specs on the scope sure sound terrific for any kind of shooting i'd ever wind up doing. The scope is very expensive though in Canada 1700 bucks!!! Does anyone own one of these scopes and if so what do you think of it, would i be better off going with a nightforce? It's quite the cash outlay for me, as my rifle alone is almost 1000 dollars, so I want to make sure it's going to be money well spent.
 
If you can afford it, get a Leupold 6.5x20x40mm Long Range model. Why?

-it's closer to the bore than a 50mm. This is assuming you cannot easily adjust your cheekpiece for elevation in relation to the scope. All the new 6.5x20's are 30 mm tubes so range of adjustment is generous.
-20 power is good out to 1k for target definition. Some shooters use more.
-use burris signature offset rings or a 20 moa base. At long range this will put your scope in the center of its range of adjustment...most likely more accurate when it comes to adjustments. At long range any adjustments are critical. You don't want to be near the end of adjustment travel.
-the target turrets are very good. Use a ballistic computer program to determine your adjustments for each range, then try it out.
-the warranty on Leupold scopes is great.
-buy one of the best scopes now, you'll save money in the long run.

Don't waste too much time practising, sign up for competitions if that's what you want. The learning curve can be steep in competitions, but it's worth it. Ask the right questions, and you will get the right answers.

Terry Perkins
 
I looked at the Leupold Mk4 series of scopes, as I thought they would be more rugged, and the longer range higher power scopes all have 50mm objectives. This would give me great magnification, but i have a feeling that higher scope mounting rings may be needed. The rifle i am considering buying is a Tikka T3 Varmint stainless steel, and even using the cheek rest, i may not be quite high enough to see through the higher mounted 50mm scope. As an alternative i did check Leupolds other scope models in the VX 111 series and found that some of their 6.5x - 20x scopes feature 40mm objectives which could mount lower closer to the bore, and thus present fewer problems for me. Although the VX 111 series is a bit cheaper than the MK 4 series, i would lose the illuminated reticle, something which would be nice depending on lighting conditions etc. The Nightforce scopes sound great but they have large objectives, which puts me back to square one. A long range scope with an illuminated ranging reticle in 40m objective is what i am after, gotta keep searching. If anyone has one, please let me know.
 
How about the IOR Valdada 3-18 X42 with iluminated MP-8 retical. Awesome rangefinding retical. It comes with rings as they are a 35 mm maintube. These are austrian Tactical scopes. Some of the best glass out there. WhiteFalls from this site sells them. They are about the same price as the high end leupolds and Nightforce.


What caliber are you getting the T-3 in????
 
Tikka t3 Varmint stainless steel in 308 Win as soon as my PAL arrives, just mailed the forms in on wednesday. Have you get an IOR, if so what type? I will have to give them a look for sure, always good to hear about other options, thanks for the tip!
 
I looked up the specs for the IOR Valdada 3 - 18 x 42mm scope and was impressed, sure sounds great. With a 42mm objective, I should still be able to mount it somewhat close to the bore on my Tikka T3 Varmint, without needing high scope rings right? Now the big question is how much do these cost in Canada and what mounts do i need to go out to 1Km?
 
Hi Johnny

Teryy gave you some sound advise on scope and ring selection. Others scopes you might be interested. Schmit and Bender PmII 4x16x42. This is as high end as you can get. cost about $2400 cdn.
P.S. The Cdn and US military selected the 3-12x50 model.
If your shooting a 308 you will need at least 37 moa to get to 1000 yards. You will want the Burris rings or a tapered base set up to get you out that far.

I was at a match recently and asked this question after competing.

At 300 yards my 10X was a little light. On the other hand there was a pretty heavy mirage rolling along so I am not sure who was better off the guys with the high power scopes or my 10X. And seeing that I didn't win it had to be my equipment and not me ha-ha. Those that participated with the 20x + variables did you stay at 20+ even with the mirage or did you turn down the power to try and get a better sight picture?

(please note some of the targets were no larger then the size of a pencil eraser.)

One of the responders advised
As to scope get an 8.5-25 Leupold efr and never look back, you can dial out mirage and have plenty of power when needed. Never took mine off 25X all day.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom