long range shooting
- Thread starter incursore101
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Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I shoot at predictable targets (paper) at semi long range and wouldn't do it hunting.
I did find out today however, that more horsepower is better. Went from my 308 when the wind was picking up to my 338 Lapua.
I did find out today however, that more horsepower is better. Went from my 308 when the wind was picking up to my 338 Lapua.
[/QUOTE] I did find out today however, that more horsepower is better. Went from my 308 when the wind was picking up to my 338 Lapua.[/QUOTE]
Imagine that.
I find the .338 300gr SMK's to be very good at cutting through the wind when sent out at 3000+ fps.
Its not something one can appreciate from a forum, website, ballistics table or armchair.
Imagine that.
I find the .338 300gr SMK's to be very good at cutting through the wind when sent out at 3000+ fps.
Its not something one can appreciate from a forum, website, ballistics table or armchair.
I always select shots according to the calculated probability of a clean hit and kill. Haven't passed on many.
As I do as well - and I then stalk closer and guess what - the odds of a clean kill just went from "maybe to most definitely". Hunting is primarly a game of position and manuver - being in the right place at the right time. Shooting is just a small component - a necessary one but comparatively minor.
Everybody talks about knowing their rifle and practice, practice, practice. Thats all fine and good but unfortunately that means different things to different people. The type of people who we hope are that way are already involved in competition precision shooting and this is a major part of their recreational life. Even the few competitors I know that hunt don't take long range shots because they have enough experience to know what can and does go wrong at long range. A slight shift of the wind, a miscalculation on range estimate, a sudden shift in the the animal's position at trigger break and you've just broken a leg or gut shot the critter. Maybe if you're lucky you can put in a quick second shot - maybe not.
Many times the guys I've seen that shouldn't be taking those kinds of shots come out to the range usually with something in magnum or super magnum category (bigger is always better don't you know). They take sighting shots ad nauseum until they ring the 600 meter gong and proudly proclaim I'm good out to 600. You see as far as HE'S concerned he KNOWS his rifle and he has PRACTICED. (Sound like somebody you know).
The problem is of course that there is no RISK in taking the long shot for most people - there's no public ridicule that you've missed or worse wounded. No one's ever going to know because the story won't get told. On the other hand if the animal does get hit and stays down He's a hero and everyone going to know. Have you noticed that EVERYONE gets instant kills at long range on the internet.
I guess I'm just SICK TO DEATH of seeing wounded critters (leg half blown off) and I think the situation getting worse because of the way the entertainment industry influences our lives. How many "Wannabe snipers" are out there PRACTICING on live animals??? Don't tell me this does not influence hunting - you know better.
I just hope that WHEN not IF the next time someone who of course "Knows his rifle and has practiced, practiced, practiced
" wounds an animal because it's too far to stalk and this is way cooler anyway REMEMBERS this conversation. Faint Hope though, probably just get a shrug and an "OH WELL s**t HAPPENS"By the way before anyone starts the insults which are sure to follow this post (various themes on "Well not everyone shoots as crummy as PSE does
), everybody's comment on this forum and very important subject is welcome and my comments are primarly directed at the originator of this thread in the hope that at least he CONSIDERS another opinion and the consequences before going down the "Sniper" path.OK I've said my piece - FLAME AWAY - It's water off a duck's back anyway
.This is an interesting point. Consider these senarios
senario 1: Deer in an open field calm grazing at 600 yards and shooter knows his rifle, has good gear, come ups, wind dope and laser rangefinder 5 mph wind.
senario 2: Deer being pushed hard by doggers during a shotgun only season and deer runs past line man using slugs at 70 yards.
Knowing what I know, I would figure the deer in scenario 1 to be a more likely clean kill, but the lineman in scenario 2 would likely empty his gun on that deer but never nail it.
BUT...
Would you guys all be ripping on the shotgunner in scenario 2 the same as you would about guys that are passionate about making long shots?
Few hunters could rattle off the lead for a 12 gauge slug gun at 70 yards on a running deer any better than the come ups and wind dope for 600 yard shot with a high power rifle.
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Yeah I'd rip away on the shotgunner too or the bow hunter that shoots beyond his capability or the rock thrower that throws too far - anything and anybody that wounds an animal when it didn't need to happen.
Some of you guys need to go out and see what I've seen in the field maybe then you'd understand.
Yeah I'd rip away on the shotgunner too or the bow hunter that shoots beyond his capability or the rock thrower that throws too far - anything and anybody that wounds an animal when it didn't need to happen.
Some of you guys need to go out and see what I've seen in the field maybe then you'd understand.
So your point is, shoot within your capabilities to effectively harvest the game. Some peoples effective range with a rifle might be 30 yards, others much longer. If a person practices and knows their rifle and equipment properly, they will be able to gauge their effective range and take that ethical shot. Some people honestly should not be allowed to have a gun at all...but I digress. The point I am making here is your saying to shoot within their capabilities...but then your dictating what you think effective range is! Saying that people wound game...so don't do it as justification. I would counter that some of the hunters I have seen have no idea how their firearm performs beyond the 100m...they just give a hail mary and fire. As noted by others...those are the people that wound animals. I have many a story to tell you about hunters and firearms...
So to sum up, each person has their effective range to take an ethical shot on an animal. Some people don't practice or care and take unethical shots. We don't take their minimum range and say "hey that is the limit for ethical shots...since that is my range"...no what we do is, let each hunter determine that. It takes maturity and experience to know yourself and how you shoot in the field....some hunters have neither and lack the wisdom to understand what it means.
I am a person of contrasts. I hunt with a longbow/recurve but also enjoy long range hunting with my precision rigs. I train accordingly. The stuff in the middle does not interest me.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The 22nd of November 2005, about 9:15 AM, 260 yards, one shot harvest with the 30-30 in this picture.
No wind, he was standing 3/4s on to me. High sight-in with about 15-17 inches of drop. I held on his white throat patch & put the 150 grain factory Silvertip, two inches left of centre chest. I practiced alot prior to the season opening.
I'll say this, it was dramatic the internal vitals damage from this smaller big game cartridge.
I read this whole thread, and, as usual, there is an immediate polarization when long range shots are the subject. I feel this way: Most hunters out there should refrain from taking any shot over about 250 yards, since they do not have the skills to reliably kill game beyond that distance. A few should limit their shots to under 150 yards for the same reasons. However, there are a few hunters who are highly skilled and practice plenty at long range. They have equipment and abilities to match that make them reliable on game shots out to 600 yards, and sometimes a bit beyond that. These folks study wind, elevation and mirage effects on their targets. They also know their rifle and ammunition [almost always a well developed handload] intimately. They know the drop of their bullet within a ½ inch at any range out to their chosen maximum. One other very important ability these guys possess.....they refrain from shooting if conditions are not ideal for the shot they are contemplating. These hunters are justified in taking the long shot if it presents itself. No need to get closer if conditions are right. One-shot kills are common in this scenario. While I do not consider myself a long range hunter per se, I practice plenty at long range, and have taken a few long shots when it was expedient. The longest was just a fraction over 600 yards, a mule deer, perfect, windless conditions. I was shooting a 270 with a 140 grain Accubond at just over 3000 FPS in a load that shot consistently under ¾ moa right out to 800 yards. One shot, deer ran 30 feet and dropped, double-lunged. I have taken several moose at between 450 and 525 with 30 cal magnums. A couple of elk at 500+ with the 7mm STW. A number of muleys have fallen at long range. However, if I was to average the distance for all the game shot by myself over the past 50+ years, it would be under 120 yards, I'm sure. Regards, Eagleye.
Eagleye: Great summary. I would only re-emphasize, that a typical hunting rifle has an out-of-box accuracy of 1MOA, or, in simple terms 1" per 100 yards from a steady supported firing position. An 800 yard shot, therefore, under ideal conditions will group within an 8" area. That - in my opinion - is cutting it fine on a deer.
To each his own. I compete in 900M F-Class competitions and I can hold my own, but I personally would be unlikely to make such a shot on game. I admire those that can do it, and applaud their success, but I guess I have too much respect for what can go wrong.
My wife insists we don't shoot anything we cannot collect with the tractor, She saves me alot of grunt work that way... she's also a pretty fine shot.
Brutus: Excellent!!!! My wife has a 1911 model 94 saddle ring carbine that was her grandfather's. She intends to use it in the 2011 season to make a kill on its 100th birthday. (I guarantee it will not be beyond 150 yards!)
To each his own. I compete in 900M F-Class competitions and I can hold my own, but I personally would be unlikely to make such a shot on game. I admire those that can do it, and applaud their success, but I guess I have too much respect for what can go wrong.
My wife insists we don't shoot anything we cannot collect with the tractor, She saves me alot of grunt work that way... she's also a pretty fine shot.
Brutus: Excellent!!!! My wife has a 1911 model 94 saddle ring carbine that was her grandfather's. She intends to use it in the 2011 season to make a kill on its 100th birthday. (I guarantee it will not be beyond 150 yards!)
Yeah I'd rip away on the shotgunner too or the bow hunter that shoots beyond his capability or the rock thrower that throws too far - anything and anybody that wounds an animal when it didn't need to happen.
Some of you guys need to go out and see what I've seen in the field maybe then you'd understand.
you have a very long list my friend...
Hunters miss...
a lot!
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Obtunded, I used my father's hierloom. Too boot this was the very first big game animal taken with this 1956 made Winchester. My father was a teenager in Belgium at the end of WW2. The very fact of being legally able to own a 'real' rifle after his younger experiences was paramount in his own mind when he first came to Canada. However, a young family has priorities and it was not until 1966 that he purchased this carbine brand new. This 30-30 rifle occupied the parent's closet for many years, and was very well taken care of.
Cheers......and very good luck to your wife! I'm sure she & you, will not be disappointed friend.
Edit: I forgot to add, this was carried out with a Williams FP peep sight and the front factory bead, replaced with the same company's "Firesite." I would have never even considered this type of activity, with the original factory sights.
Cheers......and very good luck to your wife! I'm sure she & you, will not be disappointed friend.
Edit: I forgot to add, this was carried out with a Williams FP peep sight and the front factory bead, replaced with the same company's "Firesite." I would have never even considered this type of activity, with the original factory sights.
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Please do the math and report back if it is possible with such cartridges.
