Long range vernier advice.

Dogleg

Dogleg

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I recently broke into the BPCR world with a Pedersoli rolling block. First with 535 grain RCBS and 4759 , second with a 535 Postell pattern and Goex. The third thing I did was run out of elevation on the vernier sight. I'm maxed out at 200 yards. My sight has 200 points of elevation.

Here's the question. What's the hot tip on a sight upgrade? I'm hoping to reach out at least to 1/2 mile or so, and would rather not have to do this more than once even if the rifle under it gets changed eventually.

What sight, brand and height should I get? Easy to see markings are definitely preferred.
 
Dogleg said:
I recently broke into the BPCR world with a Pedersoli rolling block. First with 535 grain RCBS and 4759 , second with a 535 Postell pattern and Goex. The third thing I did was run out of elevation on the vernier sight. I'm maxed out at 200 yards. My sight has 200 points of elevation.

Here's the question. What's the hot tip on a sight upgrade? I'm hoping to reach out at least to 1/2 mile or so, and would rather not have to do this more than once even if the rifle under it gets changed eventually.

What sight, brand and height should I get? Easy to see markings are definitely preferred.
Click to expand...

This one is best out there
http://www.warner-tool.com/#!product-page/c1u5r/ab51fecb-2c5b-3733-b61e-84132444518e
 
Prob. not enough elev. adj. for 1/2 mile shooting with BP velocities. Montana Vintage Arms or Buffalo Arms will have what you need, Long Range vernier with the 4 inch stand.

All the above being said I much prefer a 4-12 with adjust. object. to any irons...even at a 100 yrds.
 
I would suggest a couple of criteria; first is that there are click stops to the vertical elevation screw. That allows you to adjust vertically a predetermined number of clicks for errors in drop. That makes it much easier to raise or lower the sight than when using a vernier scale. You use the vernier for the major adjustment but if circumstances show you are shooting high or low, you can quickly fine tune it.

the second recommendation is that drop tables will tell you roughly how much drop to expect and maximum range. You can then relate that to the magnitude of adjustment on the rear sight with simple mathematics using the distance from the front sight to the rear tang sight

cheers mooncoon
 
If my ballistic calculator is to be believed, 132 points will get me out to 1/2 mile and 365 will do for the mile. I have no idea how accurate the program is with sub-sonic bullets. My sight is marked for 2 inches and I use up the first inch just getting sighted in, and although the sight is marked to 2 inches the slide crowns out long before it gets close to 2. I really only have 14 points of useable adjustment as it stands. Even the same sight marked for 3" would make the 1/2 mile mark. I guess I'm mostly looking for what's good, repeatable and easy to read and use.

A friend has a homeless 8' long, 5 feet high iron buffalo target he's willing to bring over to my range. That's mostly where the 1/2 mile figure is coming from. With the buffalo taken care of, duplicating the Quigley shoot course targets and ranges wouldn't be very hard. Might as well set some goals.
 
When I read "vernier" and then see bullet weights that strongly suggest 45-70 loads and reaching out to 800 and 1000 yards with bullets that have the trajectory of a thrown rock my mind sees tang mounted "Creedmore" or "Soule" rear sights used in combination with a "globe" style front sight.

For that sort of shooting the Warner sight is going to be woefully inadequate. You need something like this;

l_100002377_1.jpg


You want the base with windage corrections seen on the left but with the taller staff of the one on the right. Pedersoli makes this style of sight as do a couple of other specialty outfits in the US. Expect to pay as much for this rear sight as you would for a medium priced scope.

Such sights require careful mounting on the tang of the action so that they are located quite close to your eye and have enough room to allow reloading if you have a gun such as a Sharps, rolling block or High Wall which needs to be loaded from the rear. But this sort of rear sight will give you the elevation range you need to really reach out there.

For reading the vernier scale you want to get your self some bifocal safety glasses. If you're like many of us with "oldguyeyetis" you'll want a good magnification value for the bifocal reader portion. If you use 2.0x for normal reading then go with 2.5 or 3.0 for the safety glasses because the vernier scale will generally be a lot closer to your face when adjusting it on the bench or while prone or when seated and using shooting sticks.
 
Im guessing you have one of those aweful give away pedersoli rear sights on it right now, you have my sympathies.

MVA if cost is no object, for 900 yards, long range soule #100. In the same league is Kermit Hokes sight, again long range. If you currently have a spirit level front globe, then keep it. The windage adjustable globe sights, while period correct, are not as intuitive to use as the soule. mostly because all your adjustments have to be backwards. For shooting a mile, theres only the MVA soule XLR.

Youl also want to think about a new mould that will cast a bullet with reduced driving bands so you can get a little more capacity behind the bullet.

Sharps 63 is kinda right, in that your trying to run before you know how to walk. Once you get that new sight, load development and shooting for groups at 2-300 yards will probably take you a year or so to wring something out in a consistent load.
 
There's a beautiful Shiloh 45-110 on the EE right now. Perfect for a Pilgrim to start out with ..... ;>) Fifty rds in a session oughta be enough to cause a rethink on the matter of calibre selection.
 
Sharps '63 said:
You have very lofty ambitions, Pilgrim!

I suggest a visit to a few BPCR LR events. It can be a humbling experience.
Click to expand...

If shooting isn't a little humbling the target is too close.;) We were plinking my 650 yard IPSC silhouettes with my friend's Shiloh 45-90 the other day, with blackpowder loads.That's what got me motivated to finally get my own. He's got a MVA on his, I'll likely go that way unless someone has a better idea.
 
Good point!

I have a newly made Shiloh #1 Sporter in 45-70 that I'm working on with MVA mid-range tang on it. It has less elevation than the C.Sharps mid-range I have on a Shiloh Business Rifle in 45-70.
I haven't "0"d it past 300m to date, but I can foresee that I'm not going to have sufficient elevation to reach out to 500m. I'll be ordering a long range staff PDQ.
 
I can definitely recommend the MVA. 1/2 mile is 880 yards. That might be achievable with midrange sight, depending on your front sight, and the type of rifle it's mounted on. My highwall uses beween 152 and 162 points on my MVA rear for 1000 yards depending on altitude and weather. 880 yards would take about 135 or so. I'm using a pretty low front sight which helps. It's a Distant Thunder.

On my .45-110 Sharps I use 1.41" on the 800m gong at Heffley Creek. That's with a Shaver large diameter globe front sight. I use the long range sight on that rifle, but I think a midrange would have done the trick too.

You will need more elevation if shooting slower velocities and/or less efficient bullets. I'm shooting 535 and 540gr Money bullets at about 1350 fps or so.

When using the JBM Ballistics software you'll actually be reasonably close if you use around 0.500 BC for a Money bullet.

Chris.
 
The guys are sadly quite correct about the Pedersoli rear sight. I've got one and it's not ideal by a long shot (sorry :d). The base securing screw keeps loosening after a few shots. I know the Pedersoli already costs a fair amount but the MVA or some other maker's rear peep sight would be a better call along the lines of "buy once, cry once" mode of operation.
 
MVA is the standard that most people use for silhouette and or the 1000 yd matches,some people make the mistake of buying lower dollar junk at first then either getting frustrated and quitting the shooting sport for that rifle,or spending a whole lot more up grading later.

Same goes for the rifles ...if you think you have just enough $$$$.$$ to buy it...wait...... put the cash back in the pocket... save some more. Phone MVA and Shiloh and place your orders ...wait...wait save more cash....sell any organs you do not need... because you will need all you can get to feed the beast after you get it.

Unless you won the lotto and you are tripping over cases of blackpowder, custom bullet molds,brass, and lead.

Been there dun that
 
From what I've seen so far, the 45/70 is dirt cheap to load for compared to most of what I'm used to shooting. My lead is free so far, powder is cheaper than smokeless, casting equipment I already had. There's a Boomer mould coming for 100 bucks that can replace my 30 dollar eBay mould. Even the MVA rear sight isn't bad compared to middle of the road rifle scopes. Brass isn't any worse than anything else.

What am I missing?
 
Don't really need one, use the expander plug in the resizing die with a wad on top of powder column

What type of wads are you getting? As you'l likely want a few types out of different materials depending on load.
 
hickstick_10 said:
Don't really need one, use the expander plug in the resizing die with a wad on top of powder column

What type of wads are you getting? As you'l likely want a few types out of different materials depending on load.
Click to expand...

I'm using the expander plug and a card wad now, I just thought that it might be easier with a dedicated die. It occurred to me that I could use the expander die from my .458 too, since I'm not using it. A dummy bullet and the seating die would work too. So far all I've used are milk carton wads, what I have coming are .030 vegetable wads.
 
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