Look for the best black rifle( NR, semi auto ) , in 223

No such thing.

Black rifles are completely personal taste.
Parts availability essentially means nothing with all NR black rifles, any can take months to get certain parts.
Many hunting rifles can be changed into black rifles by swapping the stock etc.
Plenty of existing threads already on this.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775422

RA XCR-L - almost all metal, rails, irons
H&K SL8-5 - typically sub-moa
Benelli MR1
CZ/VZ-58
...
 
Swiss Arms, Tavor, HK G36 would be my top three. All three are quite different beasts with pros and cons. The Swiss Arms and Tavor are worth about $3k each, the G36 about double that.

As for which is best, well, that will turn into a long argument. If price is no object, buy all three and keep the one you like best. Or keep all three :D
 
jackdanyel said:
look,, for ,,,, reliability, durability , accuracy.. ( parts available...)

the price is not a factor ..

witch one ??? and why ?

big thanks for your help....:cool:
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Been in your situation. Sold my AR's and decided to go non-restricted..
I ended up choosing the Tavor. Its built tough as nails, accurate enough, and durable enough for the Israeli army (sand/sea/heat)... not to metion it takes AR mags which i have a ton of, and its obviously non-restricted.... (the SU above the tavor is my range rifle.. not meant to imply its on the same quality level of the tavor... not even close..)
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Tavor, Swiss, G36 (if you can find one, and price REALLY isn't a factor), XCR, MR1 all NR, as noted. Personally the Tavor is very compact, but if that isn't an issue for you get the Swiss.

NOTE: if you want the best of all possible worlds get a Swiss with an NEA lower.
 
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The Czech Small Arms VZ 58 is our best seller. It shoots 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Milled solid steel bolt and milled steel receiver. $850.00 plus app tax for the adjustable stock model. ( same collapsable stock as M-4 AR-15). I think they are the best for the money. They come with 2 ,5/30 mags and also available is the mag conversion kit to use AR-15 mags perfectly.
 
wes said:
The Czech Small Arms VZ 58 is our best seller. It shoots 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Milled solid steel bolt and milled steel receiver. $850.00 plus app tax for the adjustable stock model. ( same collapsable stock as M-4 AR-15). I think they are the best for the money. They come with 2 ,5/30 mags and also available is the mag conversion kit to use AR-15 mags perfectly.
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You do know that's a Red Rifle correct??
 
I own almost all of the above rifles mentioned.

Swiss Arms gets my vote hands down for all of your criteria.

Built to last, but with very high quality gunsmithing. Serious thought went into the design of this gun to make it an accurate, reliable, bomb-proof, and easy to repair rifle.

450 meter shots onto a 10" gong are regular and somewhat boring for me with a 4x optic on this rifle.

Superb gun that I would trust my life to any day, and extraordinarily fun to bring out for a day of shooting.
 
I've owned them all.

The correct answer is.... a Swiss Arms with an NEA lower and a co-witnessed red dot.

Upside - Its the best. Plus you can use AR mags (LAR-15) and AR stocks (I prefer the A2, but I can throw a collapsible on in a heartbeat)

Downside - Price.

Thanks for playing everybody and have a great weekend!

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blaxsun said:
Ah, I see it's that time of the week again...
Kel-Tec Su-16, hands down. :rolleyes:
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X2 on that. Just picked up a vortex sparc for it, super lo profile & affordable, doesnt take away from the compactness whatsoever. wish I could co witness with the iron sights, but you cant have everything.

NR, AR mags, Folds in half to 25 Inches long. Whats not to love?

Oh, and as for spare parts, Just buy 3 or even FOUR of them for less than the price of some of the other rifles mentioned here. If Two is One and One is None,

I guess that makes it Four is Two Or just oufit your entire family with one and a crap load of LAR15 mags and the couplers and you got WAY more firepower than something 3-4 times as much..

Best thing to have when you get a stoppage is a buddy laying down covering fire while you rectify it!!!
 
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