Looking for a No4 MkI expert

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Jonny_Cannon

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Well, I am very happy to have found a decent-looking Lee Enfield Rifle. I had a really nice one which my father-in-law "gave me", and I restored, and then promptly took back after my divorce. Zut alors. So, after much looking, I picked one up. I'm just curious if anyone can offer any advice or input on the one I have. There are a couple of things I'm wondering about - I'm fully aware that one in the condition I have has either been refurbished, or re-assembled out of spare parts, but I'm good with it - the bore is excellent. I've indicated what I can see with regards to numbers, etc, stamped on it. There may be a typo here, but I've tried to glean the correct nomenclature. I apologize for the Blackberry photos - I don't have a digital camera.:






Rear sight has "Mk II" stamped into the top right corner:


Stamped on muzzle:
NP .303 "2.22"
8.5 TONS



Stamped on breech:
US PROPERTY
5 NO 4 - MK1*


The "US Property" is what strikes me as odd, unless it's an aftermarket piece, manufactured after the war?

Trigger strap behind breech:
87C730 .
B


Also stamped into the bolt:
Stamped into bolt:
87C736

Branded on wood stock
Bottom, behind trigger
3OU/2 C 30
G

Any one who can offer any insight, I'd appreciate it.

Thank-you.

Cannon
 
This is a Savage made Lend-Lease rifle. The British government couldn't make enough No. 4 rifles themselves, so they struck a deal the the US to manufacture rifles that would be returned post-war. The US Property identified those rifles that were meant to be returned. The No. 4 Mk. 1* was only made by Savage and Long Branch in Toronto.

We know it's a Savage because of the large "S" (not a 5) next to No. 4 Mk. 1*. Is there a year stamped?

The Mk. II identifies the version of ladder sight on your rifle.

The muzzle proofs indicate the round the rifle is chambered for, .303.

The fact that the receiver/buttsocket numbers match the bolt should be a good thing. This means the rifle has stayed in one piece through the war. You've not indicated the letters "FTR" anywhere, so it hasn't been refitted at any armoury.
 
All that info in one post! Were you the previous owner lol? Thank-you so much. That's fascinating, and points me in the right direction. That's awesome. I will look for a year in closer detail, but nothing jumped out at me. If I find any further stampings, etc, I will post it.

Thank-you again for your help. That is really great.

Cannon
 
Yours is the 87,730th rifle of this type manufactured by Savage. The C is for Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts, where the factory was located.

The original deal was for Savage to build rifles for the British. Price was $65 a pop: just short of 2 ounces of gold.

Slight problem: i lt 1940, Britain was so close to flat-broke that it wasn't even funny. They needed the rifles, Savage had a plant setting-up and nobody had money. Originally the US marking was a ploy to get around the Neutrality Act, but it was kept on afterwards. The US bought and paid for them under Lend-Lease, sent them to Britain as fast as they were made. Meanwhile, Britain was setting up 3 of its own plants to make the same rifle.

The "8.5 TONS" should be "18.5 TONS": the working pressure of the Mark VII cartridge.

Check the marking on the rear sight. A sight that looks like that should be a Mark III with the later Mark IV slide. Mark 2 was that little 300 - 600 flip sight. Rifles built with the Mark 2 sight were retrofitted whenever possible.

The Number 4 likely is what it was designed to be: the Ultimate Perfection of the Bolt Rifle. I know that nobody has come up with anything BETTER since the first one was made, 82 years ago.

Hope this helps.
 
I think there is one more digit after the 87C730. I don't think it is the 87, 730th rifle built, but rather the 877, 30X rifle built. There would normally be four digits after the C. Or, if they skipped the zero proceeding the 3 digits, it would be the 870, 730th rifle built. Examine the serial a bit closer with a magnifying glass on both the bolt and the body. Your photos aren't the best, but I believe there is the portion of another number (possibly a 9? ) after the serial number on the wrist.

20 years ago the Savage made Enfields were not popular.....everyone wanted LongBranch. But times change, and the Savage made rifles will command a slight premium over the British made rifles, at least in this neck of the woods.

Always nice to see a full wood rifle that does not appear to be messed with. Often you would see the US Property mark ground off.
 
"...The "US Property"..." As mentioned that makes it a Savage contract rifle. When the contract ended in 1943 as I recall, all the finished rifle, parts and machinery was sent to Long Branch and subsequently issued to Canadian units. Had one on my MIU, long ago.
"...rifles that were meant to be returned..." Nope. Just a ruse to pretend it was owned by the U.S. They never were intended to be returned Stateside. All Lend/Lease stuff had that stamp. Mind you, not ever Savage made rifle was Lend/Lease. No such thing until just after the contract was signed and Savage started making 'em.
 
Thank-you. I did some checking with my magnifying glass. Indeed, there is one more digit - I think the "6" is the missing digit - the one from the bolt, and I just couldn't read it correctly with my eagle-like eyes (lol). The rear sight indeed says "Mk II" on it, and not "Mk III". There are a few other stampings on, oh, geez, the bolt I think (Geez I just disassembled it and cleaned it on Saturday and I can't remember - I'm at work now) - but indeed, no "FTR". My Blackberry can't take a good enough pic so I may just sketch them and then pdf it. It is indeed in really good shape, so I can't see it being used, especially with the high serial number. If it was used (I'm sure they all do - it would be in better shape if it was simply stored after manufacture), I doubt it saw much action, so there may not be too much history to it. I'm hoping to get out next week to shoot it before work. I too am fond of the fact that it hasn't been sporterized. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I wanted something closer to original. Funny thing is, out of all my handguns & black rifles I have, my buddies all like the the Enfield the best, lol.

Thank-you all for the input provided. I appreciate it.

Cannon
 
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