Looking for a No5 MkI 'jungle carbine'

D

dcoty

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Hey everyone,

The No5 Mk1 is a rifle that I am eagerly looking to add to the safe, however I don't know where the best place to find one would be. Im looking for a perfect or near perfect example (the best condition one can find). I have never held a No5 before, however as a smaller frame guy the carbine is very attractive to me. It will be used at the range for the foreseeable future however I would not hesitate to take it hunting within its capabilities at some point. I have read up on these, including the 'wandering zero' issue and I just want to ask here to see what the people fluent in Enfields have to say before I take the plunge. So...a few questions:

If you were willing to spend the money on the cleanest/best example you can find, where would you start to look? Any vendors in particular?
What are some things to be aware of when looking at one of these to potentially purchase?
Anything in particular to avoid or is considered a red flag?


I just want to make sure I end up with the best example possible and don't have any buyers remorse because I overlooked something and I want to get the best example available. Please feel free to open my eyes to any additional info, thank you everyone!

Dan
 
many No 4s were converted to No 5s.....some of them were left with No4 butt stocks
things to look for is a hollow bolt handle, and extra metal removed from the side of the bolt (rib?)
if you can remove the upper hand guard, the outside of the chamber will also have "lightening cuts" where metal was removed. electro-pencil stencilling is common
and more metal is removed from the side of the receiver opposite the bolt.
originals can come with or without a nose cap on the fore end
 
You could get lucky like me and have someone give you one.

The fella who married my mother after my dad passed, didn't have anyone to pass his carbine down to, so he picked me as the lucky recipient.

It's unmolested, numbers matching with less than 200 rounds down the pipe. :D
 
infideleggwelder said:
many No 4s were converted to No 5s.....some of them were left with No4 butt stocks
things to look for is a hollow bolt handle, and extra metal removed from the side of the bolt (rib?)
if you can remove the upper hand guard, the outside of the chamber will also have "lightening cuts" where metal was removed. electro-pencil stencilling is common
and more metal is removed from the side of the receiver opposite the bolt.
originals can come with or without a nose cap on the fore end
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the reply, I've learned that these are the main give characteristics to look for. I hear the No4 butt stocks are much more ergonomic.



mkrainc said:
You could get lucky like me and have someone give you one.

The fella who married my mother after my dad passed, didn't have anyone to pass his carbine down to, so he picked me as the lucky recipient.

It's unmolested, numbers matching with less than 200 rounds down the pipe. :D
Click to expand...

Now that is awesome! Would love to see some pics. Have you put most of those 200 shots through it? Id love to hear a little about how it shoots. Have you noticed the 'wandering zero' issue Ive heard about? Some people have it and some don't it seems but there are a lot of differing opinions out there.
 
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Given that any given example of a jungle carbine is going on 70 years old, I doubt you'd be able to determine that there was a generic fault with the rifle at the time of production - particularly with iron sights. I hope you like recoil because those buggers can kick!
 
The term "Jungle Carbine" was popularised in the 1950s by the Santa Fe Arms Corporation, a U.S. importer who refurbished many surplus rifles, converting many of the No. 4 marks, in the hope of increasing sales of a rifle that had little U.S. market penetration. It was never an official military designation but British and Commonwealth troops serving in the Burmese and Pacific theatres during World War II had been known to unofficially refer to the No. 5 Mk I as a "Jungle Carbine.


I don't know of any military converting the No4 rifles to No5 rifles.

Anything that isn't in No5 configuration is a fake or a commercial creation IMHO.

There are some extremely nice No5 rilfes available. The thing is, they won't be CHEAP. I believe I saw one for sale on the EE yesterday.

Depending on condition and originality these desirable little rifles will fetch anywhere from $250 to $900 by the time you get it home.

Do your homework. There are websites dedicated to Lee Enfield rifles. Google is your friend. Beware of socalled common knowledge.
 
I only have one Lee-Enfield in my collection a No.5.Mk.1 .
I don't collect British WWII pieces---I think that my late father bought it in Montreal in the 1970's.
We shot it 'a bit'--- I still have .303 ammo that was purchased for this rifle.

I am a condition collector and I think that this 1945 dated BSA Shirley manufactured rifle fits into that category.

The markings; On left side of the receiver---No 5 Mk 1,
On left wrist strap---1945 /47C BB9724
On barrel--- BNP 303 2.222
18.5 TCNSFER and a stamp
Forward top of the breech BNP (under a crown)

Some photos;











My two WWII British guns.



Various other photos.






















 
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dcoty said:
Now that is awesome! Would love to see some pics. Have you put most of those 200 shots through it? Id love to hear a little about how it shoots. Have you noticed the 'wandering zero' issue Ive heard about? Some people have it and some don't it seems but there are a lot of differing opinions out there.
Click to expand...

I don't have pictures of it just yet, but I will in the next day or two. I only put 15 rounds through it myself. The previous owner wasn't sure how many he put through it, it may even have been less than 100. He got the rifle brand new.
 
Given that any given example of a jungle carbine is going on 70 years old, I doubt you'd be able to determine that there was a generic fault with the rifle at the time of production - particularly with iron sights. I hope you like recoil because those buggers can kick!
Click to expand...

So I've heard!


bearhunter said:
The term "Jungle Carbine" was popularised in the 1950s by the Santa Fe Arms Corporation, a U.S. importer who refurbished many surplus rifles, converting many of the No. 4 marks, in the hope of increasing sales of a rifle that had little U.S. market penetration. It was never an official military designation but British and Commonwealth troops serving in the Burmese and Pacific theatres during World War II had been known to unofficially refer to the No. 5 Mk I as a "Jungle Carbine.


I don't know of any military converting the No4 rifles to No5 rifles.

Anything that isn't in No5 configuration is a fake or a commercial creation IMHO.

There are some extremely nice No5 rilfes available. The thing is, they won't be CHEAP. I believe I saw one for sale on the EE yesterday.

Depending on condition and originality these desirable little rifles will fetch anywhere from $250 to $900 by the time you get it home.

Do your homework. There are websites dedicated to Lee Enfield rifles. Google is your friend. Beware of socalled common knowledge.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for all the info. I was aware that jungle carbine was an unofficial designation and its good to know there are some clean ones still floating around. Luckily I am quite happy to shell out top dollar for a great example, finding one will take a lot of searching it would seem but I happy to do the legwork. I have been checking the EE so I might have to go double check if there was one I missed on there, thanks for the heads up!

drm3m said:
I only have one Lee-Enfield in my collection a No.5.Mk.1 .
I don't collect British WWII pieces---I think that my late father bought it in Montreal in the 1970's.
We shot it 'a bit'--- I still have .303 ammo that was purchased for this rifle.

I am a condition collector and I think that this 1945 dated BSA Shirley manufactured rifle fits into that category.

The markings; On left side of the receiver---No 5 Mk 1,
On left wrist strap---1945 /47C BB9724
On barrel--- BNP 303 2.222
18.5 TCNSFER and a stamp
Forward top of the breech BNP (under a crown)
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting up the pics! When was the last time you shot it? If you were ever to consider parting with it please feel free to send me a PM.


Really appreciate all the replies
 
I have a nice 1945, don't shoot it much because it's not real pleasant to shoot, my Mosin Nagant is a mild pussycat compared to this little bugger. However, I do like the history so I kept it.
 
One of the best places to find a Lee Enfield No. 5 (Jungle Carbine) is to put a want ad on the Equipment Exchange. I found this one and the bayonet on the EE. A lightly used 1947 Fazakerley gun and a more used 1946 Pool bayonet. I don’t shoot it much but it is still fun to have.









 
David Scott said:
One of the best places to find a Lee Enfield No. 5 (Jungle Carbine) is to put a want ad on the Equipment Exchange. I found this one and the bayonet on the EE. A lightly used 1947 Fazakerley gun and a more used 1946 Pool bayonet. I don’t shoot it much but it is still fun to have.
Click to expand...


Love the pics, very encouraging. I may try an ad in the EE and see what happens thanks for the suggestion.
 
I've owned a number of No5's over the years , I still have one now . The wandering zero issue has never come up with any of the Jungles that I've owned . According to some , the wandering zero problem was due to variations in issue ammo , not with the rifles themselves . Other authorities state it was a design fault . Myself , I don't care . I just enjoy shooting them .
Some of the No5's I've had shot better than others , but all would keep decent ammo inside of 3 1/2 inches t 100 yards with issue sights . My current Jungle will do 2 1/2 at one hundred yards with Winchester 180's or my handloads , which is why I still have it . It is one of the most reliable and consistent rifles I've owned and gets carried a lot .
Be warned brother , these rifles can be a disease lol . Good luck and keep us posted .
 
I've owned several of them incl one that I bought in 1962 and sporterized with a Bishop buttstock and a Weaver T0-1 mount. That particular rifle has gotten me a few truckloads of deer, a moose and a nice chocolate/cinnamon bear. I always thought it was a great rifle for the bush with a low power Widefield scope. That Bishop butt seems to help a lot with felt recoil, but recoil is s non-issue in a hunting situation. I've never experienced a loss of zero with it. Groups with handloads stay in the 2-3 inch area.
 
Thank you for the replies everyone, really appreciate it. I have good lead on one right now, if it pans out I'll definitely post up some pics. Really looking for a perfect or near perfect (all matching) example as its something I plan on keeping for a long time.
 
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