well since everyone is jumping the gun i'm going to go back to the start. Have you ever used a shotgun before, how much experience do you have, what are you looking at using 12 gauge, 20 gauge, etc? do you plan on shooting clays for fun or are you planning on competing. If you are planning on getting hardcore into the sport then there are tons of guns of interest that these guys have given you information on. However if you are just planning on playing around, just go with a basic rem 870 or mossberg 500 in 12 gauge. I use a mossberg 500 with fullchoke and I can keep up with the old timers who have the $1000 guns. But i just shoot for fun and to warm up for the duck season.
looking for a trap gun
- Thread starter brayden26
- Start date
Are you serious in that recommendation?
Every ZH103 that I've seen has had double triggers, not a very common feature on trap fields. If someting breaks parts are going to be very hard to impossible to find. Why on earth would saddle a new shooter with a hard to repair gun of an odd configuation just as he's getting started? Do you have one to sell and are trying to flog it here?
What do have next? A FEG?
Are you serious in that recommendation?
Every ZH103 that I've seen has had double triggers, not a very common feature on trap fields. If someting breaks parts are going to be very hard to impossible to find. Why on earth would saddle a new shooter with a hard to repair gun of an odd configuation just as he's getting started? Do you have one to sell and are trying to flog it here?
What do have next? A FEG?
Don't be so quick to write off a sleeper starter gun that you apparently know nothing about. The original poster was looking for a gun to get into trap shooting for under $1000.00 and I suggested a gun to get him into trap shooting for under $500.00.
Yes, it does have double triggers but also the unique feature that the rear trigger acts as a single trigger. Pull once for the bottom barrel and again to fire the top barrel.
Where does it say in his post that he is a new shooter? Just that he is looking for a trap gun in the noted price range.
Again, you apparently know nothing on maintenance of those guns. I do have my Browning's and Benneli's to play the games but also enjoy the questioning looks that a Brno skeet or trap gun get when the show up. Have had one or two in the rack over the years and yet to replace a part but have a spare firing pin and hammer spring just in case. Easy fix for most people to do it yourself.
Off topic but in their rifle / shotgun combo of 12 gauge under a 7x57R or double rifle in 7x57R great gun that all work off the same receiver. Also a few eight barrel combination sets floating around out there. Be it a 100, 200 or 300 series Brno do you really think they would have been made in those various configuarations if there was a weakness in design or prone to breakage.
Generally respect most of your posts but take that a little personal, " Do you have one to sell and are trying to flog it here? " as no where did I suggest he contact me for purchase. So, you may take that pompus attitude and firmly insert it right next to "What do have next? A FEG? "
I have a lot of respect for the Brno / CZ line of rifle, shotguns and pistols and am sure a good many people share that. Take the basic guns for what they are as well as their more refined line and enjoy.
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If you check his first post in the newbie section you'll discover he is a new shooter and even if he has other shooting experience he is looking for a "good starters gun" and it is ludicrous to suggest an off-beat, out of production, overly complex rarity to someone who is just starting out.
If that is what he had already then "run what ya brung" but to suggest he should go out and buy one is profoundly poor advice.
Someone starting out in clay target sports needs a gun that is durable, dependable, versatile, easily repairable, readily available and, perhaps most importantly, saleable. The gun should be able to withstand constant use, not break down, be suitable for various games, easy to find, easy to fix and easy to sell if and when the shooter decides to upgrade.
The OP listed a top-end price of $1,000. In that neighbourhood there are a great many good quality guns on the market both new and used that meet those criteria. A BRNO ZH103 is not one of them.
What I have seen too often is less than honourable wheeler-dealers take a new shooter aside at the club and say “Hey, what you need is a Frantzenjammer Thunderbosch and I happen to have one right here for a good price” in an attempt to off load a hard-to-sell gun at twice the price they'd get anywhere else.
After the new shooter gains some experience, gets grounded in how the games are played, tries a bunch of different guns then if he or she wishes can indulge in whatever whims and fancies happen to come along.
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I think we'd all agree it really is a tough question what someone should buy as a starter gun and the frustration seems to be growing. There are many things to consider, especially when the pocket book is limited. I started trap with a Cooey single in 12 ga. It cost me about 10 bucks, maybe less, and I still shot 17 or so in singles with it. Not sure I broke 20 with it, but I bought another gun pretty fast. Upon reflection I wish I had set up my model 870 for trap. All I had to do was get another barrel and put a pad on the cheek piece to elevate it a bit and keep a better cheek weld and so it shot higher. I could have even shot doubles with it...not saying how well. Next gun was a second hand Citori 12 ga with a full set of chokes for $1200 and I still have it. No regrets there, though I've had a spring kit put in it because it was getting a bit tired and looking down the inside of the barrel is an interesting experience. I guess the bottom line is that you can 'try' trap with almost anything and have fun. I think the 870 is most often recommended as an inexpensive starter I think, and probably with good reason. But if you know a lot about shotguns, or have good friends who do, a secondhand o/u like the Citori can be a good deal, providing you know it's a good gun or they look at it for you. It's a good thing to shoot the one you are interested in before buying it too.
. There are many things to consider, especially when the pocket book is limited. I started trap with a Cooey single in 12 ga. It cost me about 10 bucks, maybe less, and I still shot 17 or so in singles with it. Not sure I broke 20 with it, but I bought another gun pretty fast. Upon reflection I wish I had set up my model 870 for trap. All I had to do was get another barrel and put a pad on the cheek piece to elevate it a bit and keep a better cheek weld and so it shot higher. I could have even shot doubles with it...not saying how well. Next gun was a second hand Citori 12 ga with a full set of chokes for $1200 and I still have it. No regrets there, though I've had a spring kit put in it because it was getting a bit tired and looking down the inside of the barrel is an interesting experience. I guess the bottom line is that you can 'try' trap with almost anything and have fun. I think the 870 is most often recommended as an inexpensive starter I think, and probably with good reason. But if you know a lot about shotguns, or have good friends who do, a secondhand o/u like the Citori can be a good deal, providing you know it's a good gun or they look at it for you. It's a good thing to shoot the one you are interested in before buying it too.You'll have to excuse me as I didn't go searching for Newbie section posts as to the shooting status of the poster and just answeared the question he posted.
You can say ludicrous, off-beat, out of production, overly complex rarity yet no suggestion that you have any hands on with a Brno gun and appear to be blowing smoke out of your posterior. Best never look at a trap gun with a name attached like , Parker, L.C. Smith, Ithaca, Browning Superposed, Browning Auto 5 or Browning 2000 amongst the many other out of production guns that are hard to get parts for yet they are a joy to shoot. Your logic escapes me.
Your certainly entitled to your opinion but to suggest it is " profoundly poor advice " leads to your ignorance.
I was introduced to the simplicity of those Brno's by an American shooter several years ago and as stated they are a good gun and more than capable for introduction and durable to last. Given the option of a Remington 870 or a Brno in the $400.00 range, the choice for me would be easy to go with the Brno.
As to your experience with people off loading guns on the unknowing well then pick up the tourch and inform them. I directed the poster to a supporting dealer to look at what was available and he can decide from there.
Yes, there are many good guns in that $1000.00 range and several of them were listed. Simply information given on my part for consideration for the Brno to get him started not to mention save him some $.
Sorry that the Brno dosn't live up to your status of walking the fine gun rooms of London or that somebody could lower themselves to use one.
Appears that you don't like other peoples opinions and that only yours count so will leave it at that.
Let the poster choose - enough sideline chat.
Cheers
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I've shot all the guns you've mentioned, taken apart a few of them and owned a couple. Some are good, some are not but not many are a good idea for a new shooter who is just starting out. Only a guy desperate to sell an Auto 5 would suggest one as a good choice for a target shooter who is just starting out.
I'm interested in helping new shooters get into the games and stay there. If it's between someone's desire to off load an unsuitable gun on a new shooter or keep people involved in clay target shooting I'll go with the new shooter every time.
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If the OP has a budget of $1,000 for a Trap Gun why would anyone in their right mind recommend a Brno ZH103? Nice Hunting Gun but...
A BT99, or a Beretta or Winchester
Semi Auto or a Browning Citori would all be better choices.
It seems that the winter's been too long for some in this thread; might there be little pent-up off-season frustration coming out in what is sure to be just the first of many "I want a $1,000 trap gun" threads that we'll all see in the coming weeks?
The problem seems to be that used guns cannot be debated like new guns. I loved my 3200... it never so much as blinked, that gun. I can also understand how someone would have a bad experience with one, should it have broken down. That doesn't mean it's a bad gun, it means you had a bad gun. Brand-new Citoris are crappuing out after a few months, and seem to be spending almost half their lives at Browning's service centre, and yet people recommend Citoris all day, every day. I shot a Browning Double Auto as my first sort of "trap" gun, and loved it. Everyone that shot it did. Complete newbs would crush 24 targets with that thing; it was a bloody laser beam. And I'm sure there's plenty of naysayers out there that'd say it's an old, out-of-production gun that's no good for a newbie, but it did me just fine. I kept it clean, and made sure it was always in good working order, taking it apart routinely just to make sure there wasn't any accelerated wear going on anywhere. I sold it to another guy who never cleaned it, never took care of it, and he promptly started having it hang up on him. Then he put in a poorly loaded handload and blew the guts out of it. He's lucky it wasn't a Twelvette or he'd probably have no face.
Point is, if the exact same gun can serve me perfectly well without so much as a hiccup, but puke it's guts out on the next guy that owns it, how can anyone possibly hope to make such sweeping generalizations as "Brand X is crap, Brand Y is better?" If we were talking new guns, then yes, it's easy to say that this gun is better-made than that gun, but when you're talking about guns that are 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 years old, it's pretty much a given that it's previous owners will have more to do with that gun's contemporary performance than it's manufacturer ever will.
The problem seems to be that used guns cannot be debated like new guns. I loved my 3200... it never so much as blinked, that gun. I can also understand how someone would have a bad experience with one, should it have broken down. That doesn't mean it's a bad gun, it means you had a bad gun. Brand-new Citoris are crappuing out after a few months, and seem to be spending almost half their lives at Browning's service centre, and yet people recommend Citoris all day, every day. I shot a Browning Double Auto as my first sort of "trap" gun, and loved it. Everyone that shot it did. Complete newbs would crush 24 targets with that thing; it was a bloody laser beam. And I'm sure there's plenty of naysayers out there that'd say it's an old, out-of-production gun that's no good for a newbie, but it did me just fine. I kept it clean, and made sure it was always in good working order, taking it apart routinely just to make sure there wasn't any accelerated wear going on anywhere. I sold it to another guy who never cleaned it, never took care of it, and he promptly started having it hang up on him. Then he put in a poorly loaded handload and blew the guts out of it. He's lucky it wasn't a Twelvette or he'd probably have no face.
Point is, if the exact same gun can serve me perfectly well without so much as a hiccup, but puke it's guts out on the next guy that owns it, how can anyone possibly hope to make such sweeping generalizations as "Brand X is crap, Brand Y is better?" If we were talking new guns, then yes, it's easy to say that this gun is better-made than that gun, but when you're talking about guns that are 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 years old, it's pretty much a given that it's previous owners will have more to do with that gun's contemporary performance than it's manufacturer ever will.
I think the only safe course is to get a Purdy. Because they're awesome http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&um=1&hl=en&biw=1045&bih=383&tbs=isz:l&tbm=isch&tbnid=qgqLRK3EQeDMaM:&imgrefurl=http://www.drake.net/products/Purdey-28ga.-.410ga.-O-U-2-barrel-Shotgun-Set---Price-On-Request%3Fid%3D29652&docid=yVRvISnxBUeLwM&imgurl=http://www.sitemason.com/files/cRXUVW/Purdey%25252028ga..410ga.%25252029325%252520d.JPG&w=2288&h=1712&ei=YehoT4GAKsakiQKXh42iBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=113&vpy=57&dur=2792&hovh=194&hovw=260&tx=214&ty=102&sig=111035810091064796321&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=206&start=0&ndsp=4&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
The tools they give you are engraved! Their brushes have ivory handles! I bet each one is from a different elephant too. Accept no substitute
The tools they give you are engraved! Their brushes have ivory handles! I bet each one is from a different elephant too. Accept no substitute
Apologies, I think me and fritter derailed it somewhat
You know, with our discussion on the merits of using human parts in the manufacture of fine shotgunnery
I believe the final conclusion is that you should get a Purdy as a first gun, a sporter Holland and Holland if you can't quite afford a brand new Purdy, or if you're a classless Continental you can stumble through with a (*shudder*) Fabri, with its Italian gaudiness. Tweed hats and shooting vests extra.
Apparently everything else just breaks instantly.
But seriously the 870 will go a looong way, especially for a newbie. Its resale is really good so it's easy to get out of it once the new shooter starts to understand what he likes. In the meantime, start talking to people with different guns and trying them out, most clays people are very understanding of new shooters and the desire to try new guns. Believe no one on the field entirely, but don't discount all advice instantly; as with everything else just evaluate it based on what makes sense to you. It's a process, don't try to rush it.
If you are going to insist on a Purdey or a Fabbri a nice touch might be learning how to spell the names correctly.
