Looking for advice on English rook rifles

[wood hog]

Hello Gentlemen, Ive inherited 2 antique English "rook rifles" and i'm looking for some help to appraise them

#1) J Rigby & Co. 72st Jame's ST London. Stamped 297/250. Excellent condition. serial # 206X


#2) J Blanch & Son 29 Grace Church St London. (Calipers to 360 rook). Good condition. serial #10X


Understanding this is an obscure branch of the gun tree and appreciate any of your time on this.

Peter

Full pictures have been added here

Rigby: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MuL6yyAYlYYzyqS2-FCVf2MHdTsP5kz0?usp=sharing
Blanch: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bDy7dH2LQ0c4VnKBHpBWyBxFcSk3b9ip?usp=sharing

 

[tacfoley]

You have two desirable rifles, made by two top gunmakers. Blanch have long gone, but J Rigby are still with us, in a much-modified format, but nevertheless, carrying on the traditions in spectacular style. They might even have a record of your rook rifle.

 

[mooncoon]

The tough part for you will be finding someone who commonly sells to those who desire such guns. I suspect you will also get a wide variety of evaluations simply because you don't see a large number of them in gunshows. Be nice to see some photos of them

cheers mooncoon

 

[Evanguy]

Yeah please do post pics. id love to see that Rigby

 

[Ashcroft]

These would be beautifully made small game rifles of a quality no longer produced. Examples in Canada are few, prospective purchasers even fewer. It seems a shame but very few people will seriously consider paying a premium price for these because today they are just attractive curiosities. No ammo available, difficult to near impossible to make your own, they’re now for show not go. The pedigree of these guns is very attractive which helps boost value but as in all collectibles, current condition trumps everything. If you are talking about guns with 90%+ original finish throughout, excellent bores with no damage, alterations or repairs and in the original maker’s trunk case they should be properly appraised, individual examples could fetch into low three figures. Any condition shortfalls, even small ones can negatively affect value, often drastically. Many of these were rebarrelled or relined to common calibres like .22 LR and .22 Hornet to keep them in use, this immediately cuts collector value in half no matter how nice the piece is otherwise. Some good quality pictures would be far more informative than any description.

 

[chasseur]

A lot of the old rook rifles were rebored to 410 ga in England when their gun laws changed making it easier to get a shotgun certificate than one for a rifle

 

[BlackPowderBurner]

You should make sure that the 297/250 hasn't been redone to .22lr which was a common conversion. Rifles in their original caliber are a bit more scarce.

 

[wood hog]

2 x pictures and google drive folders have been added to the original post. Thanks guys. They really are fairly amazing pieces of work.

 

[Brutus]

Once upon a time 360 #5 Rook was pretty much interchangeable with 38 Long Colt.
38 LC of yesteryear has/had a differing (.365 or .367?) bullet diameter. Unlike 38 Special.
I don't know if modern cowboy loads of 38 LC the bullet now is same as 38 Special of today? (.357)

However, I myself have never seen any vintage or modern 38 Long Colt for sale in Canada. So......

 

[chasseur]

That rigby is beautiful I would love to own something like that

 

[saskbooknut]

While your rook rifles bear two great names in British gunmaking, they almost certainly were made entirely by a "maker to the trade".
Marks on the action or barrel flats might reveal the actual maker.
Many British firms sold Birmingham and/or Belgian made rook rifles, with the retailer's name prominent on the barrel.
This fact is not detrimental to a rook rifle's value.

 

[chasseur]

While your rook rifles bear two great names in British gunmaking, they almost certainly were made entirely by a "maker to the trade".
Marks on the action or barrel flats might reveal the actual maker.
Many British firms sold Birmingham and/or Belgian made rook rifles, with the retailer's name prominent on the barrel.
This fact is not detrimental to a rook rifle's value.

This is true I have a nice francotte Belgian made martini rook rifle that was retailed by J Venables &Son

 

[wood hog]

interesting. i didn't post the serials/ makers marks because it seems thats a faux pas on the forums...i'll have to dig into that....

 

[Ashcroft]

Very pretty. Both of these as stated are generic guns made for Rigby and Blanch for retail by these makers. If you were a patron of one of these makers and wanted a small game or plinking rifle for yourself or a youngster one of these would likely be your choice unless you had very deep pockets in which case there were many ascending grades at ascending prices. Some of these guns that were made on the most advanced actions of their day for nobility and even royalty are some of the most breathtaking pieces ever made.

 

[chasseur]

If you have a keen interest in these rook rifles there is a book you can buy the covers them. The classic British rook and rabbit rifle by Greenwood.I have a copy and it is a very detailed book with many pictures of rook rifles.The only thing I don t like about the book is the Author excludes rook rifles built on martini actions as it is in his opinion they are not true rook rifles.In my opinion it is a bit of snobbery on his part as there were many small frame martini rook rifles some done real nice like my Greener Martini pictured here

 

[tacfoley]

My pal Mick has a lovely Holland & Holland rook rifle in .380 Rook, for which he reloads. I'm not sure if he uses the correct heeled bullet, but I'll ax him for details next Sunday. I've shot it, and it is an utter delight - accurate at 50 yards [not metres] and with a recoil like an electric toothbrush. I know he paid very little for it, but my LGS has had one unsold from the same maker for a real fortune. Here in UK it is possible to collect them without any kind of licensing, as they are all obsolete calibres for which there is no modern manufacturer. However, if, like Mick, you want to shoot it, it must be registered on your Firearms certificate. A RPITA.

 

[tokguy]

Double tap

 

[tokguy]

Once upon a time 360 #5 Rook was pretty much interchangeable with 38 Long Colt.
38 LC of yesteryear has/had a differing (.365 or .367?) bullet diameter. Unlike 38 Special.
I don't know if modern cowboy loads of 38 LC the bullet now is same as 38 Special of today? (.357)
Hit me up if it helps...I'll throw couple cases in the mail.

However, I myself have never seen any vintage or modern 38 Long Colt for sale in Canada. So......

I've a bag of ☆--- 38 LC. It is a shorter version of 38 special... but niether fits an actual 38 LC pistol.
It'll coke bottle and / or split the cases if you try to shoot it in an actual 38 LC.
I'm guessing that there is an advantage to running 38 LC in a 38 Special?

 

[smellie]

38 LC is an earlier cartridge. When they wanted the proverbial "more power" they lengthened it and called it the 38 SPECIAL...... which later was lengthened and hotted-up again to make 357 Magnum.

297/250 Rook and Rabbit can be made by reforming with FL die and thinning the rim of 22 Hornet brass, same as 297/230.

Finally! A sort-of use for those 25ACP dies you got such a great price on at the gun show!

 

[Cummins]

I am still waiting for a letter from Westley Richards but i’m starting to believe that my 28ga was converted from a rifle to a shotgun. I wonder if it started out as a rook rifle?