looking for first hunting rifle

frumpy

frumpy

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I have done some searching and read the stickies but couldn't really find an answer to my question.

I am planning on doing my hunter education course this coming Jan/Feb. I'd ideally like to try hunting a few different things (deer, turkey, coyotes, small game, grouse and maybe more). I already have a Mossberg 500 with the three barrel combo so that covers pretty much everything I mentioned at closer ranges. The only thing I think I would have an issue hunting are coyotes at a distance.

I have been looking at getting a Mosin Nagant and was wondering if it's an acceptable rifle for hunting coyotes (say up to 200 yards). Lots of ammo around, both surplus and soft point and is powerful enough to put down any North American game. I know the caliber is probably overkill for coyotes but I have heard just to use FMJ for them.

thanks!
 
Hunting small game with a .30 cal is a no-no in certain areas of Ontario (nothing over .275 in the regions listed in the small game section in the regs) and hunting using a rifle delivering over 400 foot pounds during a big game season isn't allowed either unless you are also licensed to hunt the big game that's in season.

HOWEVER

A .270 is a great all-around calibre. You can take any game in North America with it (by "can" I mean it's capable of it...not necessarily legal...ie turkey), and you can use it on small game if you like. It has good ballistics and ammunition is readily available for it.

You'll notice in my sig I don't actually own a .270, so someone can continue to sell you on that one.

You're obviously better off having a gun designated for each type of game you pursue...with the optics and ammunition tailored for that purpose but that's pretty expensive if you try to do it all at once. So to get started with an "all-around" gun I think the .270 is the way to go.

If you're primarily interested in coyotes though, the .223, .22-250, 22wmr, .204 ruger, .243 are popular choices.
 
thumper1 said:
It's illegal to use FMJ's on any animal in Canada. Just use soft points if your not worried about the fur or get a smaller cal.
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While I agree with you that they are a bad choice, it's not illegal to use them on certain animals, like coyote in AB for example.
 
Good to know about the FMJ's, I knew you couldn't use them on larger game but wasn't sure about small game as I had read on the net about people doing it.

The reason I was leaning towards the Mosin Nagant (aside from the price) was the price of ammo. I plan on getting a lot of trigger time with whatever rifle I get so I was looking at 7.62x39, 7.62x54, .223 and possibly .308. I guess I could go with a dedicated coyote gun as I have a slug barrel with red dot on it. Only problem is I am looking for something cheap right now and thought surplus would be the way to go.

edit: would it be legal/practical/humane to mount a good optic on the shotgun and go out to say 150 yards for coyotes?

edit #2: I just looked at the 2011 hunting regulation summary (http: //www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@fw/documents/document/251888.pdf) and there is no mention of FMJ ammunition. Also, from what I understand 7.62 and shotgun are fine as long as other large game are not in season?
 
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frumpy said:
edit #2: I just looked at the 2011 hunting regulation summary (http: //www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@fw/documents/document/251888.pdf) and there is no mention of FMJ ammunition. Also, from what I understand 7.62 and shotgun are fine as long as other large game are not in season?
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No comment on the FMJ. Personally I've never heard of such a ban before, but I've never used FMJ ammo while hunting either so I don't really care since it doesn't affect me.

7.62 is fine either outside of big game season or during big game season with a big game tag with the exception of the listed counties. I'm not going to pull up the regs for my own personal reasons (laziness), but if memory serves it says something along the lines of not being able to use anything greater than .275 unless it is a muzzle loader in the counties of: brant, waterloo, etc
 
Where I live falls into what is considered northern Ontario (barely). From what I read it's fine.

Is there any other pub/regulation than what I posted to clarify on FMJ or should I just forget the Mosin Nagant as a coyote gun and look for a .223
 
Look at something in a 243 or 6mm if you want to hunt coyotes and deer. I personally like to carry my 270 for coyotes sometimes as it's got better glass than my other guns. There's a Browning A-bolt stalker in 243 on the EE that would be an excellent gun for what you're doing....
 
Grab a savage axis with scope in a small caliber for yotes, $450ish for a boomstick with glass that shoots just fine... Save your pennies for a nice .30 cal hunting gun if you really want to hunt, sako, savage, reminton, tikka all make fine rifles... Packing a milsurp thru the woods is alot of fun however they are heavy and while "accurate enough" for game most are just not quite up to that 300yrd once in a lifetime shot on a B&C stag... But that being said I have an old .303 Brit here that I trust for just such a shot... But I reload and have many hundreds of rounds down its pipe... Choose... But choose wisely
 
tactical870 said:
Look at something in a 243 or 6mm if you want to hunt coyotes and deer. I personally like to carry my 270 for coyotes sometimes as it's got better glass than my other guns. There's a Browning A-bolt stalker in 243 on the EE that would be an excellent gun for what you're doing....
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as I mention, trying to stay at a cost effective round. The calibers I mention when bought in bulk are max 70 cents a round max (closer to 50 cents). 243 and 270 are both great calibers but are over a buck a shot.

Jäger said:
There's an easy way to cover your ass on this one. Can you get soft points for it? I'm sure you can, although I doubt they're all that common.
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For 54r? SFRC stocks them


Joe549 said:
Don't believe there's anything in the Ontario hunting regulations that prohibit the use of fmj ammo. May not be the best choice, but not illegal.
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Only reason I would use an FMJ (if legal) when hunting would be for a larger caliber on coyotes. Never would use it on larger game like deer.
 
Hotwheels81 said:
Grab a savage axis with scope in a small caliber for yotes, $450ish for a boomstick with glass that shoots just fine...
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As a matter of fact, I use a .223 axis as my coyote gun. It ran me $500 for the rifle (black, not camo and no scope), bases, 4 boxes of various ammunition (ended up shooting hornady superformance 53gr poly-tips the best) and a pair of snap caps. Already had a scope, bipod and sling.
 
Get the .270 Win as you live in Ontario. You can use it down south for stuff if needed. Bigger stuff is no go in some of the southern counties. For a brand of rifle look at a Winchester Model 70, various trim levels. Nice gun for the money. Check out the newer versions though that have been out almost 2 years.
 
USP said:
Get the .270 Win as you live in Ontario. You can use it down south for stuff if needed. Bigger stuff is no go in some of the southern counties. For a brand of rifle look at a Winchester Model 70, various trim levels. Nice gun for the money. Check out the newer versions though that have been out almost 2 years.
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Why not go .223? Should take down anything I want at a fraction of the cost and for bigger I have the mossberg and 12ga sabot.

I'm still a little confused though. 7.62 is no issues in my area aside from not being able to use it during large game season (but then again you couldn't use 223, 270, etc if I understand the regs correctly). So, why is everyone against it? It has the stopping power needed and soft point ammo is readily available (and surplus stuff for at the range).
 
Jäger said:
As a matter of fact, I use a .223 axis as my coyote gun. It ran me $500 for the rifle (black, not camo and no scope), bases, 4 boxes of various ammunition (ended up shooting hornady superformance 53gr poly-tips the best) and a pair of snap caps. Already had a scope, bipod and sling.
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Nice bang for the buck eh?

I have seen a local retail store selling them as package deals with a cheap but decent 3-9 buschnell for under $500... I thought loooong and hard about getting one but I'm partial to the accutrigger after buying my better half a mk.2

.270 is a nice caliber but I find it rather hard on pelts when doing pest control, a Texas heart shot on an adult yote from 50yrds with fed blue box tends to push the rectum thru the trachea...
 
thumper1 said:
It's illegal to use FMJ's on any animal in Canada. Just use soft points if your not worried about the fur or get a smaller cal.
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Why dont you look up some facts before telling people that?

It is NOT illegal to use FMJs in Ontario for hunting. I would not do it, but their is now law against it. Other provinces may vary, but I wont speak out of my ass when I dont know.

Now, on to the OP, I'd buy a 308, 3006, or 270 instead. Far better options. And a lot more choice.
 
Everyone can tell me what to get (which I do appreciate) but not much on why not to go with the gun I'm looking at. I'm not too worried about the odd ball Ontario regs (unless I am missing something) as I fall into northern Ontario.

That being said I am heading down to Kingston after Christmas and will have a look around at SFRC. I already have some rings kicking around and a bushnell sharpshooter 3x9 scope I would have no problem stealing off my .22 so no need for a combo. That being said, if I don't go with a 54r I will probably go with 223.
 
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