Looking for info on AR in 7.62x39
- Thread starter tacdriver
- Start date
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
Colt has made the AR in 7.62x39 for at least 15 years. Olympic Arms has also been making them for a long time. I don't know if either brand is available up here anymore.
The problem with them has reportedly always been magazines. Standard mags will hold maybe 8 rounds before they start to jam. Nobody has ever been very happy with the aftermarket jobs.
Up here, the problem would be different. Say you take a standard 5.56, 20-round mag, and plug it so it holds 5 rounds of 7.62x39. Along comes Mr. Gestapo and seeing that it is an AR mag, attempts to see how many 5.56 cartridges will fit. Want to bet it's more than five?
The problem with them has reportedly always been magazines. Standard mags will hold maybe 8 rounds before they start to jam. Nobody has ever been very happy with the aftermarket jobs.
Up here, the problem would be different. Say you take a standard 5.56, 20-round mag, and plug it so it holds 5 rounds of 7.62x39. Along comes Mr. Gestapo and seeing that it is an AR mag, attempts to see how many 5.56 cartridges will fit. Want to bet it's more than five?
C-product is supposed to be making 7.62 mag....and hence Robarms is supposedly waiting on it.
To be honest, i will not want to buy a 7.62AR . Coorsive steelcase stuff doesn't seem to be an overly good idea in the AR system if the 223 wolf steelcase ammo demonstrates anything. The bolt web is much thinner with the 7.62 because it has to fit into the AR receiver. if you somehow get hold of an Olymic arms, there isn't really guarantee on quality.
I will just forget about it and wait for the Robinsom Arms XCR with 7.62 conversion kit.
To be honest, i will not want to buy a 7.62AR . Coorsive steelcase stuff doesn't seem to be an overly good idea in the AR system if the 223 wolf steelcase ammo demonstrates anything. The bolt web is much thinner with the 7.62 because it has to fit into the AR receiver. if you somehow get hold of an Olymic arms, there isn't really guarantee on quality.
I will just forget about it and wait for the Robinsom Arms XCR with 7.62 conversion kit.
But for hitting power,(223 is failing
to stop bad guy with one round.)
the 7.62 seems to be a good fix.
Anyone have input on wich round
has a harder hit then the 223
and the reliablity to cycle consistently.
to stop bad guy with one round.)
the 7.62 seems to be a good fix.
Anyone have input on wich round
has a harder hit then the 223
and the reliablity to cycle consistently.
Apples to Apples, tacdriver.
Let's avoid blanket statements about .223
What kind of round (55gr? 60gr? 69gr?)
What's the barrel length? Is the twist rate appropriate for the ammo? (not a terminal ballistics issue, but ammo that tumbles before it hits the target doesn't help you stop badguys)
What's the range?
Terminal ballistics is not as simple as "what caliber is it?"
Yes, the US military has made some changes recently to improve "badguy-stopping" performance.
Do a bit of looking around before you decide that you MUST go to 7.62X39 instead of 5.56 in order to stop badguys. Keep in mind that NATO is not the only military alliance that switched to a small caliber after using a 7.62mm
Most of the issues with decreased stopping power in 5.56mm are related to FMJ rounds dropping below the 2700FPS speed level...which is how fast they need to be going in order to reliably yaw and then fragment at the ferrules on impact. From what I've read, there seem to be two fixes to this:
#1. Make sure that your bullet is going more than 2700 FPS when it impacts (don't combine heavy bullets and short barrels and long ranges)
or
#2. Don't fire FMJ...use a TAP/JHP/Nosler/WYHD round (WYHD=whatever your heart desires)
A quick look at the sites belonging to Federal, Hornady, and Black Hills will show a variety of bullets that will work well out of an 5.56mm AR. No, they're not going to be as cheap as surplus 7.62x39. But they don't have corrosive primers either. For my money corrosive primers + direct gas impingement system = not such a great idea.
I'm not slamming 7.62X39. It's a perfectly serviceable round. I'm simply saying that 5.56mm will also work just fine if you do your part when it comes to selecting ammo and rifle.
Let's avoid blanket statements about .223
What kind of round (55gr? 60gr? 69gr?)
What's the barrel length? Is the twist rate appropriate for the ammo? (not a terminal ballistics issue, but ammo that tumbles before it hits the target doesn't help you stop badguys)
What's the range?
Terminal ballistics is not as simple as "what caliber is it?"
Yes, the US military has made some changes recently to improve "badguy-stopping" performance.
Do a bit of looking around before you decide that you MUST go to 7.62X39 instead of 5.56 in order to stop badguys. Keep in mind that NATO is not the only military alliance that switched to a small caliber after using a 7.62mm
Most of the issues with decreased stopping power in 5.56mm are related to FMJ rounds dropping below the 2700FPS speed level...which is how fast they need to be going in order to reliably yaw and then fragment at the ferrules on impact. From what I've read, there seem to be two fixes to this:
#1. Make sure that your bullet is going more than 2700 FPS when it impacts (don't combine heavy bullets and short barrels and long ranges)
or
#2. Don't fire FMJ...use a TAP/JHP/Nosler/WYHD round (WYHD=whatever your heart desires)
A quick look at the sites belonging to Federal, Hornady, and Black Hills will show a variety of bullets that will work well out of an 5.56mm AR. No, they're not going to be as cheap as surplus 7.62x39. But they don't have corrosive primers either. For my money corrosive primers + direct gas impingement system = not such a great idea.
I'm not slamming 7.62X39. It's a perfectly serviceable round. I'm simply saying that 5.56mm will also work just fine if you do your part when it comes to selecting ammo and rifle.
I think that it's from specific instances of bad guys hopped up herion/opium/khat that failed to stop doing bad things after being hit by 5.56mm FMJ rounds that were fired out of 14.5" (M4 carbine) barrels at longer ranges. Or at least that what I've read on the interweeb...so it must be true 
I understand.
.223 has its time and 7.62 has its time.
I run both, but for $ reasons
ammo is surplus 55gr FMJ or 147gr FMJ.
7.62x39 is cheep.
That is why I was thinking AR style
rifle in 7.62x39.
More stuff to add on to the rifle
and hard hitting cheep ammo.
.223 has its time and 7.62 has its time.
I run both, but for $ reasons
ammo is surplus 55gr FMJ or 147gr FMJ.
7.62x39 is cheep.
That is why I was thinking AR style
rifle in 7.62x39.
More stuff to add on to the rifle
and hard hitting cheep ammo.
The terminal ballistics of 5.56 vs 7.62 on paper range targets is fairly comparable. Both make clean holes.
Hold out for a 6.8mm SPC
I've seen a few ar type rifles in some gun mags that shoot the new 6.8 mm SPC cartridge.. more balls than a 5.56.. just something to think about.. its supposedly better than the 7.62 x39.. you'll probably have to roll your own ammo for it if you want to shoot bulk..
I've seen a few ar type rifles in some gun mags that shoot the new 6.8 mm SPC cartridge.. more balls than a 5.56.. just something to think about.. its supposedly better than the 7.62 x39.. you'll probably have to roll your own ammo for it if you want to shoot bulk..
Oh I see you're buying the gun for a good and realistic reason, but keep in mind that the badguys might come at night so you should get night vision and also some tactical gear.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Check this out... it might solve your problems if you can wait for a little while.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190897
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190897
- Location
- Saskatchewan
If you take a look in the thread I beleive the guy gives some sort of date.
I think next year, but I might be wrong.
I think next year, but I might be wrong.
