I have the alps outdoorZ extreme hybridX pack and a horn hunter full curl pack. Both are external( not exposed aluminum freighter type) frame packs with meat shelf between the bag and frame. The HH is a huge pack for multi day trips that can be trimmed down for just day outings. The hybrid is a smaller pack designed to be more of a day pack ( if you go light you could do a three day out of it) both carry 80# well ( the HH does well up to 120#) both can be had for less than 400$. neither are super light but if your not humping up after sheep it's not a huge deal. So far ( 3 seasons) both packs have been great with no loose seams tears or broken zippers.