Looking for opinions on new 300 or 338

I knew I would get these responses, and for the most part I agree with both of you. My experience with the 338 was limited and a long time ago and I just wasn't impressed. I too have buddies who swear by it as well, just relating my impression. I moved up to the 340 Wby and think THAT is a superb cartridge and why I never worked with the 338 more.
The 300s, well that might just be me and you'll notice I did not bad mouth the 300 Win it is a fine cartridge and a favorite of mine as well (2 in the vault) I just think the 100+ fps the Wby has on the Win is worthwhile. Recoil isn't any different in the same rifle and if you're gonna pack a long action anyway it might as well be for a long cartridge.
I have taken an indefensible position, I'm aware, so I won't try OK? I just love my Remington SS 300 Wby and me and her have had more great hunts and memories than all my other rifles and calibers combined. Therefore I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this caliber to anyone interested in a 30 mag.

And as I ended previously JMHO
 
This is the difference I've experienced between a 3006 class cartridge, and fast 300's or 7's, and the 338 class cartridge.

Shooting an elk at 100 yards with a 3006, double lung, the elk stumbles, pauses, gets shot again through the lungs, and then topples and dies. As I recall into a nasty gulley where we had a heck of a time butchering him. The meat damage was minimal and the happy hunter dressed the meat right to the hole. The bullet hung up on the hide on the far end of the animal. I can relate another dozen similar experiences with 308, 3006, 270, 7x57, etc.

An elk shot at 100 yards with a fast 7 (7rm), double lung. the elk hunches up and takes off, runs about 50 yards and piles up. Extensive blood shot through the entry front quarter. I can relate another bunch of stories ending in a similar fashion with 7mmrmag, 300 wm, 300 weatherby, 300rum and one 7stw.

An elk shot at about 125 with a 300wm, double lung, elk piles up dead. Extensive blood shot through both front quarters. Much meat lost. I've rarely seen a bullet recovered with a fast 30 or 7 they just punch on through.

An elk shot at 129 yards on a run with a 338wm, elk drops dead. Happy hunter recovers meat up to hole. I can again recall numerous times when this has happened.

FME the fast 30's and 7's seem to bloodshot the meat a lot more than the 3006 or 338 type cartridges. To be fair I've had one animal with a ruined front quarter after a double lung with my 338 and I've seen the odd animal not all blood shot up by a fast 30 or 7 but in general the fast bullets seem to ruin a lot of meat.

3006, 308 type cartridges seem to kill as good as well as the magnums or the middle bore 338 type cartridges with little meat damage. While I am partial to my 338 I cannot say with certainty that it kills better or worse than a 3006, a 300 weatherby, a 300wm, or a 7mmrm. The only exception I would draw is on bears in general. Their heavy bone and muscle structure seems to stop bullets faster. This is not to say a well placed shot from any reasonably sized cartridge won't work - only that the fast 30's and the 338's will penetrate better and create a larger wound channel.
 
Keep your 308, great medium range whitetail gun.

Sell you 30-06 and 7mm mag.

Buy a 300 win mag, load good bullets and you have a longrange hammer.

Buy a 375 if you want something bigger, but not really necessary anywhere in North America except maybe grizzly bears.

Owning a 30-06 and a 7 mm mag is redundant, make your 308 a really light rifle, the 300 a medium normal weight sporter and then the 375 heavier.
 
It's very hard to argue with the "thump" a 338 Win Mag delivers on game.
The 340 Whby is more of the same.
I do not care much for the propietary brass needed for the Weatherby line, but acknowledge the effectiveness of the 340 and up, particularly.
If 100 fps is enough to really segregate the 300 Whby from the 300 Win/308 Norma Mags is up to the individual to decide, but I am unable to perceive any real-world difference in those 3. [Yes, I have used them all in the field]
Since I abhor muzzle brakes, anything that dishes out more recoil than I can tolerate off the bench gets a "nay" from me.
Of course, rifle weight and stock design have a lot to do with felt recoil, so there is room to wiggle there also.
I find the 375 H&H easier to handle than a 340 Weatherby in most rifles.
Buy the 300 Win Mag or the 338 Win Mag...both very fine, effective chamberings that are found practically anywhere you go.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
Agree with the last two guys, except the part about the necessity of a 375.

There is nothing necessary about having more than one well chosen gun. Guns to a gun nut are the like horsepower to a car guy. Its about what makes you happy. I really am tired of people telling me a 458 is dumb for BC. It makes me happy.
Now, if you're going to have 20 rifles, may as well have a 7mm, 308, 30-06, 300 etc. but if you're starting your collection now i find it more fun to spread em out so you have all ranges of calibre covered.
Just me though, we all enjoy this stuff for out own reasons.
 
I agree with everything Beargun45-70 says, I've already taken everything I might need a 470 NE for but I always wanted a 470 NE double so I bought one. A 458 in B.C. makes total sense to me, what if you get a hankering to go to Africa, or for coastal grizzly (nothing more devastating on BIG bears as a 458 with 350-400 gn bullet) or a whitetail out your back window at 20 mtrs with a 405 gn cast bullet. It's a great cartridge !! Point being it's about want never need. I own over 100 rifles from 20 cal to 50 cal, it ain't about NEED it's about want and entertainment value. I just love guns and playing with them, what can I say?
 
I have hammered a half dozen elk with a .338 with two over 500yds, my son has that rifle and has hammered at least a dozen moose with it . You can't go wrong it is a proven caliber in the right hands. I am using a .375H&H AND LOVE IT.
 
martinbns said:
Keep your 308, great medium range whitetail gun.

Sell you 30-06 and 7mm mag.

Buy a 300 win mag, load good bullets and you have a longrange hammer.

Buy a 375 if you want something bigger, but not really necessary anywhere in North America except maybe grizzly bears.

Owning a 30-06 and a 7 mm mag is redundant, make your 308 a really light rifle, the 300 a medium normal weight sporter and then the 375 heavier.
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Except for a "longrange hammer" you want the 7mm mag and not the 300 win mag. 7mm rm hits harder, shoots flatter, has less wind drift and is cheaper to shoot. For a longrange hammer that is. For 100 yard shots it doesn't.
 
tzclark, good for you stating you want a new rifle just to shoot for fun. To many feel the need to justify their purchases with lots of fancy bulls**t talk. If i was you i`d look at the salvage line of rifles, i`ve shot several of the model 11/111 package rifles, priced well shoot great may need a scope upgrade. Also easy to sell or trade later if your not happy with it, comes in 300 win mag. For a 338 they have some other options still within your price range. I haven`t shot the rifle you mentioned but think it may be harder to move down the line because of the reputation it has, deserved or not. I realize if a buddy of mine see this post of me recommending a salvage product i`ll never hear the end of it, but they do the job at a decent price.
 
kman300 said:
Except for a "longrange hammer" you want the 7mm mag and not the 300 win mag. 7mm rm hits harder, shoots flatter, has less wind drift and is cheaper to shoot. For a longrange hammer that is. For 100 yard shots it doesn't.
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I'm going to have to disagree with this entire post !! I do not know from where you glean your information but I can tell you for a fact with chrono data to support, the 300 Win is superior to the 7 RM in all departments, period. 300 Wby even more so.
 
c-fbmi said:
I'm going to have to disagree with this entire post !! I do not know from where you glean your information but I can tell you for a fact with chrono data to support, the 300 Win is superior to the 7 RM in all departments, period. 300 Wby even more so.
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You are totally correct there, my feeling on the whole magnum thing is it starts with the 300 win mag.

I found the 7mm mag had little to add to the 30-06. The beauty of the 300 winny is recoil is manageable. 3000 to 3100 fps from a 180 grain bullet is easy to achieve, 3000 fps in a 7mm mag is a challenge in my experience with a 160 gr pill, is hard to get to without pressure signs.

As the 30 calibre magnums get faster, recoil goes up at a more significant rate than performance does. The Weatherby gets you maybe another 100 fps and RUM 200, but lots more recoil. The law of diminishing returns kicks in in a big way.
 
Beargun45-70 said:
Id say a 338 isnt bigger enough to even be worth it in your case. Load 220's in the 30-06
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The 338 WM has a good 1000 lbs energy over a 220 grn 30-06. Thats not bigger enough??? the 300 Wetherby and the 300 RUM also have well over 1000 lbs more energy than an 06. I would think they are bigger enough for him also. I have nothing against the 30-06 ( except for the ivention of the 25-06 :p ) but it just doesnt copare with the 30+ magnums just by putting a 220 grn bullet in it
 
kman300 said:
Except for a "longrange hammer" you want the 7mm mag and not the 300 win mag. 7mm rm hits harder, shoots flatter, has less wind drift and is cheaper to shoot. For a longrange hammer that is. For 100 yard shots it doesn't.
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????? Where did you come up with such drivel??

7mm Rem Mag, 160 Accubond, started at 3050 fps
Range - yds 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500
Velocity - ft./sec. 3050 2959 2869 2781 2695 2610 2527 2445 2365 2287
2210
Energy - ft.-lbs. 3304 3110 2924 2747 2579 2420 2268 2124 1987 1858 1735
Path - in. -1.5 1.1 2.8 3.3 2.8 1.1 -2.0 -6.3 -12.2 -19.6 -28.6

300 Win Mag, 180 Accubond started at 3100 fps.
Velocity - ft./sec. 3100 3004 2909 2816 2725 2636 2548 2462 2378 2296
2215
Energy - ft.-lbs. 3840 3605 3381 3169 2967 2776 2594 2423 2260 2106 1961
Path - in. -1.5 1.1 2.7 3.2 2.7 1.0 -1.9 -6.2-11.9 -19.2 -28.1
300, just a bit flatter, and more energy all the way from point blank to 500

In fact the 200 Accubond shoots just as flat as the 160 7mm AB over 500, and arrives with noticeably more energy at 500.
Even though started a bit slower, the 200 catches up around 250 yards, and is the winner from there out.

Regards, Eagleye.
 
^^^this - and if you throw the .338 WM with a 225gr Accubond @ 2900 you will see that it drops only a bit more and still has 2248 ft-lbs at 500 yards.
 
Well I don't know what "long range hammer" means to most people but lets assume long range starts after 500 yards.

The chart shows a 168gr berger launched at 3050fps (very achievable with a 7mm rem mag). Please feel free to post a 300 win mag load that will hit harder, shoot flatter, and have less wind drift. Not to mention the 7mm rem mag kicks less and is cheaper to shoot.


Calculated Table

Range Drop Windage Velocity Energy Time
(yd) (in) (in) (ft/s) (ft•lbs) (s)
500 -40.0 10.0 2347.3 2055.0 0.560
550 -51.2 12.5 2282.0 1942.3 0.625
600 -64.2 15.4 2217.9 1834.6 0.692
650 -78.9 18.6 2154.8 1731.8 0.760
700 -95.5 22.2 2092.8 1633.6 0.831
750 -114.1 26.1 2031.9 1539.8 0.904
800 -134.7 30.5 1971.9 1450.3 0.979
850 -157.6 35.2 1912.8 1364.7 1.056
900 -182.9 40.4 1854.6 1282.9 1.136
950 -210.7 46.0 1797.3 1204.8 1.218
1000 -241.2 52.0 1740.7 1130.2 1.303


P.S. I should also add that I'm not just making up these numbers. I shoot a 7mm rem mag, have had a 300 wby and a 300 ultra. The 300 ultra with 200gr accubonds barely matches the 7mm and kicks about twice as hard and uses 25gr more powder. But we are talking about the 300 win mag here and it doesn't even come close. I sold my big 30's as they offered no ballistic advantage and kicked way harder/cost more to shoot. If a 7mm doesn't shoot flat enough and hit hard enough for you then skip the 30's, build a 338 lapua et al in a 15lbs gun and put a break on it.
 
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kman300 said:
Well I don't know what "long range hammer" means to most people but lets assume long range starts after 500 yards.

The chart shows a 168gr berger launched at 3050fps (very achievable with a 7mm rem mag). Please feel free to post a 300 win mag load that will hit harder, shoot flatter, and have less wind drift. Not to mention the 7mm rem mag kicks less and is cheaper to shoot

Well, you have obviously not worked with the 300 Win Mag enough, particularly at long range.
The 210 Berger is the bullet, and 3050 is a realistic velocity in a 300 Win Mag, some even reaching 3100 because of the shorter bearing surface of that bullet. The trajectory and wind drift is identical to the 168 Berger, and it does arrive at 1000 with quite a bit more "thump" than does the 7 Mag.
Granted, the recoil will be greater, and a bit more powder will be burned.
The 300 Win Mag [or 308 Norma] do not take a back seat to the 7 mag in any ballistic race.
Additionally, as far as I am concerned [and many others agree], that Berger VLD is not a hunting bullet, regardless of what Berger may claim.
Trying to compare a true "hunting" bullet with a Berger will have the Berger ahead every time. It is simply a sleeker profile.
I shoot Bergers in 1000 yard competition, and love them for that.
For hunting, I much prefer a different style and construction.
Regards, Eagleye.
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