Looking for Short Shot Shell Reload Recipies

[Alstro]

I have been looking for a lite load for my kids to use in a 510 Mossberg 20 gauge and I am having a hard time finding out about reloading shot shells. I see that loads are extremely specific as to shell, wad, powder, and primer and there is no min/max load like in rifle loads. From what I understand so far, the reason for this is because all supplies are a little different by volume and to get a good crimp you have to be at an exact length or the crimp won't be right.

To start with I was wondering if I roll crimp instead of fold crimp would this make up for the difference that different components have in overall length. I have found 2 1/2 inch loads with 3/4 oz shot and roll crimp and I have found 2 3/4 inch loads with 1/2 oz and 5/8 oz shot and fold crimp. The 2 3/4 loads use an extra spacer in the shell to take up the extra space in the shell so it crimps right. I am wondering if I leave out the spacer can I use the same load with a 2 1/2" shell and role crimp the shell for a snug fit.

HULL: Fiocchi 20 GA 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: Hodgdon TiteWad 15.0 gr.
WAD: OB20+DX20 (spreader)
SHOT: 1/2 oz. (218 gr.) Lead #8 or #9
FOLD CRIMP: 6-point
Result: 9200 PSI 1460 FPS

I can find short shell loads for 12 gauge and I hear that in Europe, cutting cases down to reuse is very common but I can't find any loads for 20 gauge. I don't have a press and I don't need a lot of shells so I am wondering about changing components and then roll crimping. My friend has a press that I can use to reprime and set wads and then I can roll crimp the shells instead of fold crimp. I don't know how hard it is to change the settings for different loads but I don't really want to change his setup because it works for what he needs. I have a bunch of casing and I didn't want to buy specific ones if I can use the ones I have. They are Winchester and Remington so they are good casings and I can cut them to shorten and role crimp if it will work. I am not looking for competition accurace or consistancy, I just want a lighter load for my kids to learn on and get use to the recoil and then work them up from there. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Seagull]

First off if it is for your kids, buy a press. Mine shoot off 100 shells of 410 every time we go. You have the right idea, less lead in the shell = less recoil but if you are pushing them 1460 fps it won't be much less. Roll crimping is a much slower process. The easiest method is to use what Hodgdon lists for 20 ga lite loads on their site. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun That is where I would start and they even do list a a couple powder weights for different speeds.

 

[Longwalker]

I personally would feel comfortable leaving out the spacer of a 2-3/4" load and roll crimping shorter IF the load has published pressure data that is not at the top end of the range. Max pressure listed for most modern 20 ga loads is 11,000 psi, so at 9,200 I would feel OK with that small change.
If your goal is low recoil, look up low recoil loads, many are published for 2-3/4" cases, and try to stay with 1200 fps or so, Mush faster will defeat your low recoil goal somewhat. For limited use, the Lee Load All has given me satisfactory service. I'd suggest buying one because like most stuff made by Lee, it does the job within reason and doesn't cost much. Roll crimping any quantity of shells also requires a drill press and a hull vise of some sort, I made one out of a vise grip type pliers, but it took a fair bit of tinkering.

 

[Ashcroft]

Been loading both 2 3/4" and 2 1/2" for years, fold crimp as well as roll crimp. As noted, shotgun shell pressures are very low compared to fifle pressures. Look at the thickness of a shotgun barrel, they are very thin to keep weight reasonable for a dynamic handling gun and this limits maximum pressures and at the same time if pressures are too low you can get erratic results so the shotgun shell needs to operate in a fairly narrow pressure range. Seemingly minor changes in components can have major changes in pressures, hence the specific loading data.
With your goal of lowest possible recoil with a given gun your enemies are Shot Weight, Velocity and Pressure in order of importance. Find a published load or two with the lowest figures for these parameters and you will have your lowest practical recoil possible. As you've already found out, there is very little published load data for very low recoil ammo, particularly in smaller than 12 gauge, you will need to do some digging. Sourcing the listed components will be the next challenge and this can be a big problem. Roll crimping will produce a shorter shell than fold crimping with the same components but pressures will be identical for all practical purposes. The advantage of roll crimping is that it gives you a little more vertical case volume to work with, very helpful with the short 2 1/2" hulls. The disadvantage is that you will need another component (overshot card wad) and another tool ( roll crimper).
Once you have your load picked out and components in hand the advice to pick up a comparatively inexpensive (used is fine) 20 gauge Lee Loadall press to put it all together is a sound idea. I can understand your friend being hesitant to adjust his press from time to time to accomodate your short runs and if the kids have fun with this you will find yourself doing this again and again. One final thought on empty hulls..... the straight walled hulls such as Federal, Fiocchi, Kent, Remington Club, etc have more interior volume than Winchester AA and Remington STS and are usually more frequently recommended for low pressure loads, offering more choices. Have fun and play safe.

 

[Alstro]

Thanks very much guys, I really do appreciate it. I guess I am trying to understand shotshell reloading before I get myself into trouble. Logic and chemistry say I can remove spacers, roll crimp, etc but I am not sure if there is something hidden that I don't know and I'm not accoounting for. This load is from Balistic Products and they do have a few low recoil loads on their web page plus they sent me a sheet of 2 1/2 shells roll crimped.

I did look up other loads for Tightwad and I have seen the pressure on some loads as low as 5600 PSI. I am thinking I could drop the charge a grain or two to reduce speed and recoil but still have enough pressure for a good burn. I might try a bunch of different loads to get one I like, I just picked the one up top as an example to use for my questions because it seemed to fit my questions the best. Once I find a load I like I will probably get a reloader but if I am going to load various shells in different lengths I will probably roll crimp for now to keep loads snug.

Now let's talk 410 since it came up. Anyone I have talked to said that 410 is horrible to reload because they don't want to crimp right. The only people I have found that reload 410s roll crimp for that reason. Are you fold crimping Seagull, and if you are, are you having any issues? I love 410 and have 3 of them but they are all too long for my kids, I can't find a shorter stock and they are too nice to cut down to reduce the LOP. I would love to use them more but the shells are too pricey.

Thanks Again

Tom

 

[R&R Rancher]

Claybuster makes a wad, the CB 10-75 20, which is specifically made to load 3/4 ounce loads in the 20 gauge. They list loads at this link

http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-20/33-load-data-cb1075-20

I've reloaded 2-1/2" 410's on a Hornady 366 progressive. Used Winchester AA HS hulls, 296 powder, the appropriate Claybuster wad and 1/2 ounce of shot. Had the odd one crimp bad if the precrimper missed the original folds, the rest came out just fine. Key was to use the scale to be sure I was getting the exact drops to get my stack height correct. I had to open the shot bushing up a surprising amount.