Looking for something to reach out past my m14s

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misanthropist

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I've read the "starter rifle" thread for a while, and I noticed that people were asking for more information. So I've decided to write out my specific problem here; hopefully you guys will have some advice for me.


I have a good little pile of nork M14s...I shoot them (well, two of them) pretty regularly out to about 400m. I THINK I could push them to maybe 600m but that's hard for me to say. I haven't measured my groups carefully at all but I believe my two longer-shooting ones to be somewhere between 1-2 moa guns. I believe that at 400m I have been shooting groups reliably less than a foot in diameter, so the guns in a vise would probably do better than that.

Anyway, what I would like is the ability, really for fun purposes and to satisfy my paranoid survivalist leanings, to engange man-sized targets further out that 400m. I am thinking more like 700-800m... maybe an absolute maximum of 1000m.

This could be done with the M14s if I were prepared to put in the big bucks but I think a precision bolt gun would be cheaper and more reliable at that kind of range.

Also, I would ideally like to have a somewhat "fieldable" gun.

Let me tell you what my first instincts say: Savage 10fp in .308, or 700 SPS tactical in .308. I would prefer the 20" barrel even though I would be giving up a little velocity. I guess that would probably hurt me out around a kilometer, but I THINK that the tradeoff for weight and handling is worth it, perhaps you could all give me your opinions on that.

It happens that I have some TPS rings and a 3200 10x scope lying around doing nothing...I realize these are entry level items compared to what you guys are probably running but I have them here and might as well use them...I am trying to burn a little less money these days so my inclination is to go with a standard tupperware stock and start epoxying arrow shafts into it.

So given that I would like to leave the rifle in FAIRLY stock condition, and deliver terminal energy at upwards of 700m, what do you all think? Are my two "possibles" good choices?

In the long term I would probably start building up the gun, but in the short to medium term - say next three years - I will mainly be wanting to shoot rather than spend.

I am set up for reloading .308 now, which is part of what makes the caliber appealing. I would consider others as well but would want to hear pretty good arguments for the switch...seems like .308 does well on zombies out pretty far, although I guess .300 winmag would probably go one better.

Your thoughts?
 
The savage and sps tac choices are good, consider also the tikka, especially if your going to leave the rifle pretty much stock. Those distances with a 168 grain national match bullet over varget should get you moa or less if you do your part.
 
If just paper punching, Savage in 223.

If you want to drop something, Savage 110FP in 7RM - Frontier Tax may still have one for dirt cheap. Spin on a brake and reach out and touch something. Stuff 162gr Amax over Re25, lit with some 215M primers and you can shoot sub MOA as far as you want.

The 308 is fine but can't compare to the 7RM for wind drift at distance. The 223 is the same as a 308 for way less money, recoil and barrel heat.

If you want to stay with the 308, go 26" barrel. It helps

Jerry
 
i'm in roughly the same boat, ( got 4 of the m14s) - prowl around on the net to see what they're REALLY capable of- but if you want a REAL step up, i got a 338 win mag - major step up in BOTH bullet weight and velocity
 
Yeah, I had originally thought I would build two of mine in to long range machines but honestly I don't think it's worth it...at that level of accuracy they lose a lot of the characteristics I really like about them anyway.

Jerry, that's an interesting thought about the 7mm...I don't know anything about that cartridge.

I would be inclined to stick to .308 if I can...I have about 2000 pcs of brass that aren't really suited to my m14s and I think I would like to use the stuff myself rather than sell it off. If you were in my beat up old running shoes would you still go with the 7mm? Looks like they do still have one.

I see you recommend the 26" barrel as well...just how hard is the brick wall I would be butting my head against with the 20"? I mean if we eliminate my caffiene-laced body and short attention span from the equation and tie these guns down in vises and shoot them, what sort of difference would you expect to see from the two barrels at say 750m? What about 1000m?

Sure do appreciate your thoughts on this - that goes for everyone btw, not just Jerry!
 
SWAG is you will loose 100 to 150fps by going 20" over 26". With a 155gr Amax, 20" around 2700fps - 26" around 2850ish.

The difference in drop is 100m ie the 20" will do at 800m what the 26" will do at 900m.

If keeping things inside 1000m, really doesn't amount to a hill of beans. you just have to dial up your scope another 4mins or so.

It's the wind drift that will get you. Run some ballistic programs and compare the difference in drift. If you are trying to hit a milk jug sized target, you have to be that much better with a slower slug.

If you have lots of 308 brass, why not also consider the 243, 260, and 7-08. All are head and shoulders better then the 308 re: wind drift and drop (up to 1/2 the drift). The 7RM is another 15/20% better in the wind but much harder on pipes.

I just got back taking my 6.5 Mystic (260AI variant) to 2210m according to my GPS.

Far enough????

Jerry
 
Oh man, I don't pretend in my dreams to shoot at the kind of distances you go for! I know you're shooting a lot farther than I'm ever going to!

I guess I don't know what's involved in forming the brass down...is that a big job technically speaking? I guess that the three you mentioned are necked down somehow but I don't know how that's done...I will look into this.

Do they hit with authority at that range? Will the zombies still drop at that range?

Is the effort of necking down a few thousand pieces of brass worth my occasional shooting at that range? I guess that's something only I can answer.

I guess I have been reluctant to consider wildcat calibers just for purposes of standardization and simplicity...you guys are serious long range people, I'm just a weirdo with guns! Also I guess if I went to a wildcat caliber I'd be permanently locked into reloading for it if I wanted any ammo at all, eh? I could never get away with forgetting my ammo bag again!

As a survivalist wacko I tend to approach things from a logistics perspective first so maybe that's closed my mind to some of the more exotic options.

Certainly is an interesting discussion (for me at least, probably old hat to you!)

Always interested to hear more ideas...keep them coming!

Thanks guys!
 
misanthropist said:
I guess I have been reluctant to consider wildcat calibers just for purposes of standardization and simplicity...you guys are serious long range people, I'm just a weirdo with guns! Also I guess if I went to a wildcat caliber I'd be permanently locked into reloading for it if I wanted any ammo at all, eh? I could never get away with forgetting my ammo bag again!
Click to expand...


.243 .280, 7-08 are all off the shelf calibers I believe. Any hunting store would have them, maybe not walmart thought.

I'm in the middle of putting together a Rem 700 SPS Varmint long range gun in .243. I did all the thinking you did on calibers and picked the .243 for the ballistics and economy compared to the larger calibers like 7MM or .300 .338. I would also like to get to 1000yds, but I can't see that happening for a while. For now I just have to satisfy my long distance crave by looking at what Jerry is doing.
 
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Simplest is the trade your 308 for whatever you want. NO forming.

Otherwise, all can be formed by using one or two steps in appropriate dies.

Takes a few seconds per case.

Both the 260/6.5 and 7-08 will hit HARDER at distance due to much higher retained velocity. A 7-08 with 162gr Amax is a superb mid size cartridge that can be used for LR plinking and hunting.

Jerry
 
I have done the .308win with custom barrels and actions trued etc,There is no doubt its a great cartridge and does well at 1000 yards.
But I am getting recoil sensitive in my old age, and have changed to .223rem which I really enjoy shooting and at half the cost of shooting .308win.
I have my Remington shooting very well with Berger75gr at 3000fps, should do well out to 1000 but I am just on the edge with 1/9 twist
There is a fellow at range that bought a new Savage .223 rem with a 1/7 twist I am sure when he gets a load with 80gr or 90 gr bullets he will give any .308 a good run at any F class manufactured gun in .308
 
You can't really go wrong with the newer Heavy barrelled Savages or The Rem 700 versions................

The Savages offer easier barrel changing, but the Rem 700 action is tried and true, plus there a LOTS of parts/accessories to build them up..........Smiths have also been tuning them for years.................

You will lose roughly 25 fps for every 1" of barrel .............so you would lose roughly 150 fps going with a 20" barrel as opposed to a 26" barrel.................

Personally, I would go with .308Win...................for ease of getting into the game...........

SKBY.
 
I had no problem hitting targets @900m with my M1A with a bedding job
in a birch stock unitized gas system it got 1MOA accuracy using Federal GM Match 175
 
Some options: put better sites on one of the norcs, get a target sling, and learn to use it.

Any modern cartridge will do fine, differences are mostly based on opinion and fluff.

Look around for a Sportco in good shape, they will go to a mile wioth no pronblem. A lot of people have actually bought glass filled telescopic sights for their rifles, somehow thinking that it will let them shoot further!

The simplest way to get out to medium range (800-900m) and beyond is to burn sme powder. There is absolutely no better way to learn to shoot at distance.
 
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