Looking to buy, What the Value of Antique Webley .455 caliber "Bulldog" double action

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Looking to buy, What the Value of Antique Webley .455 caliber "Bulldog" double action

Antique Webley .455 caliber "Bulldog", double action revolver (1870's)

Seen one localy, has pitting on the outside it looks like and rust. Apparently silver plated? Comes with 200 rounds.

Whats this worth? What do I NEED to look for? Thinking of asking the guy to bring it shooting with me so I can take a look...

Here is a pic

 
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Look at bore for pitting or rust , also check rifling out. Check crown condition as well. As far as function check the timing out and check the lock up for tightness. A little play is expected but not too much , the tighter the better. Condition of the cylinder and condition of the chambers in the cylinder should also be checked.

Expect to pay north of a grand for sure for a so so functional example. These antiques go for decent money. How much is the guy asking?
 
sigrunes said:
Look at bore for pitting or rust , also check rifling out. Check crown condition as well. As far as function check the timing out and check the lock up for tightness. A little play is expected but not too much , the tighter the better. Condition of the cylinder and condition of the chambers in the cylinder should also be checked.

Expect to pay north of a grand for sure for a so so functional example. These antiques go for decent money. How much is the guy asking?
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1200 with the ammo.
 
200 rounds of .455 webley is worth about $300 itself roughly give or take. Hard to find a lot these days. Is the ammo reloads or factory (fiocchi or Hornady). Did the guy say it functions and shoots decent?
 
sigrunes said:
200 rounds of .455 webley is worth about $300 itself roughly give or take. Hard to find a lot these days. Is the ammo reloads or factory (fiocchi or Hornady). Did the guy say it functions and shoots decent?
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He claims in functions, I know the guy so It wouldn't be hard to convince him to go shooting with it. No mention if its reloads or factory.

Thing is, the outside is extremely pitted on this gun. It looks like he tried to clean it up at one point. I can make out what i believe is rust on the gun in several locations.

Here is a pic i got

 
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That pitting on the outside is Fugly but it could just be from poor storage in a holster. If the internals are not pitted as well and if the chambers in the cylinders and bores aren't pitted it should be OK as a shooter. IMHO it doesn't have much collector value. Also, if you don't handload you will have to steal your kids piggybank money to buy ammo that is getting progressively difficult to find.

One thing you also need to verify is whether or not there is a certificate accompanying it that declares it as an antique.

If not, I suggest you do a careful search for stamps and serial numbers to prove its relative date of manufacture. One thing I recently ran afoul of is the fact that Belgian makers of different models of Webleys happily chugged along making obsolete models well past 1898 right up to the mid 1920s. They are structurally identical but they don't qualify as antiques.

There are a lot of these clones out there that people are positive they are antiques. BE CAREFUL and do your own due diligence. In this case you have the time to do so and can either take pics yourself or get them showing serial numbers and stamps indicating times of manufacture by the canceling of certain stamps. Belgium had a nasty habit of running the same stamp in some cases from the mid 1850s to 1904. It is extremely possible that firearms with no physical differences will be classified as RESTRICTED or PROHIBITED just because they were manufactured after a certain date.
 
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Look for ELG in a circle ( without crown) stamping on cylinder or frame. Looks Belgian so likely will have it. That way it's sure 100% antique status.
 
It's not silver plated, it's bubba'd. Looks like somebody has taken a wire wheel to it and they didn't even take the grips off first. Take this as a warning sign - who knows what else has been bubba'd that isn't visible.

Looks like this poor thing was stored in damp conditions for a long time and was coated in rust, so someone used a wire wheel on it. The external pitting is extreme, remember that internal surfaces and action mechanism have been exposed to the same conditions and may have suffered similar corrosion damage. Be very careful.

What to look for? Start with this:
1. bore and chambers condition. Is there any rifling left? Pits?
2. action lockup - depress trigger and hold it all the way back and lower the hammer. Now with the other hand try to wiggle the cylinder forward-and-back and side-to-side. Should be no movement. A smidgeon can be OK, anything more is trouble.
3. single and double action operation - does everything work? Does it shoot? Try it yourself before you buy. Don't dry fire unless you have a dummy round in the chambers, the frames and firing pins on these things will be damaged by dry firing.
4. check the firing pin hole and the pin itself for damage and stretching from dry firing. Look for old repairs on the firing pin. Elongated firing pin hole from dry firing can make problems if it is too large. Think blowback straight back into your face.
5. Are you sure it's a webley?
- Lots of American and Belgian companies made copies of webley revolvers, some of reasonable quality and some junk.
- Some of the fakes had the inscription "British Bulldog" or similar so that doesn't mean it's a webley.
- A webley should be stamped "Webley and Son" or "W&S" and may have the webley winged bullet logo on the side of the frame.
6. Can you prove antique status? Does the seller have proof of antique status? If he's selling it as an antique then he should have some documentation to prove it is an antique.
- Look for the proof mark on the back of the cylinder or frame - if it's Belgian it will have a E-L-G in oval, British will have Birmingham proof, if it's US it might not have anything.
- Real Webley pistols will usually have the Birmingham proof. Google proof marks and dozens of examples will come up. Some proof marks can prove antique status, some can not. Know the difference.

For value:
1. IF it is a real webley, AND you can prove antique status, AND the mechanicals are good, and it shoots - then it might be worth $500-$1000. It would be worth more if exterior was in better shape.
2. IF it's not a webley but works AND you can prove antique status - it's worth half to 2/3 the value of the real webley.
3. If there is no way to prove antique status, then it's worth $50-$200 maximum if it's a shooter.
 
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Jethunter has it nailed.

Further on it - if it's not locking up properly or indexing properly, or has truly excessive gap, cracking in the frame, or really needs any significant work, take it down below $500 automatically. Closer to $500 if it's a sure-shot fix. Antiques take forever to work on and can be incredibly fussy. You can't buy replacement parts, so almost everything has to be hand made. Plus usually fixing one thing results in other issues showing up, because usually guns this old have multiple problems, and only the weakest point failed. Replacement of that part creates a cascade of breakages/fixes. They can be fixed, but you'll spend most of what you saved paying someone else to do it, or significant portions of your time.
 
You've gotten very good advice in this thread. Run, don't walk away from this gun.


H Wally said:
Jethunter has it nailed.

Further on it - if it's not locking up properly or indexing properly, or has truly excessive gap, cracking in the frame, or really needs any significant work, take it down below $500 automatically. Closer to $500 if it's a sure-shot fix. Antiques take forever to work on and can be incredibly fussy. You can't buy replacement parts, so almost everything has to be hand made. Plus usually fixing one thing results in other issues showing up, because usually guns this old have multiple problems, and only the weakest point failed. Replacement of that part creates a cascade of breakages/fixes. They can be fixed, but you'll spend most of what you saved paying someone else to do it, or significant portions of your time.
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